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100nl KK hand.

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100nl KK hand.

Postby Stelvask » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:16 pm

100nl on stars. after my bad run a few weeks ago i've had 10 days of poker - 9 of which were winning days. after my MTT win last night, i'm officially well up for the year again. go me.

Here's a hand from todays session that bothered me, especially since my read was so far off. 100 nl. i have a $150 stack. Button has only played a few hands and still has $100. I have no reads on him.

I'm dealt [Kc][Ks] in the CO. EP limper, and a solid player raises to $4 .i reraise to $12. button calls, everyone else folds.

$30 pot. Heads up.

[9c][7c][2d]. i lead out with a $20 bet. button smooth calls. Not what i wanted. i wanted a fold. or a raise. something so i could know where i stood, but after having called the $12 my initial read is that he's on a PP. and i can't imagine that he's putting me on AK with my reraise. i've got the [Kc], so [Ac][Kc] is out of the question. worst of all, this punk has position on me. i'm not a happy camper right now.

$70 turn heads up.

[5s]. once again. i'm not happy. he's got about $70 left. i really hate the idea of putting him in right now. If i'm him and i'm holing a set, i'd probably put me on a high PP right now, and think i'm just about golden. I check. he checks behind me. was this too weak on my part?

$70 river heads up.

[2h]. i check again. he fires a $20 bet. somethings wrong here, but there's no way in hell that i can fold to this bet. Results in white below.
He had QcJc. i was in shock to see this hand from him to be honest, there was no way i put him on that type of hand to call my raise preflop. more over i was mad at myself for giving him the free card to outdraw me, and in losing the obvious money that i could have picked up on the turn by making him pay (which he was obviously willing to do).

So who does anything different here? who makes a different read (or makes the same read and plays it differently)?

~Dustin
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Postby Bob314 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:03 pm

I'd have a hard time making any other read than the one you made. His flop call is believeable, if unjustifiable, it his preflop call that completely blows me away. Raise, re-raise, CALL WITH Q[c]J[c]?!?! That is insane! Good call on the river. You may not like it but you've gotta pay it off. I thought maybe your opponent had A-A but he could make a set too. The thing about making the set read is that any opponent who calls your re-raise has to have as much in their stack as you do--no one with a $100 stack has correct implied odds to call off $12 cold (of course, your opponent seems so bad that he probably wouldn't think about that anyways). I'd just be happy that he missed and that he gave you an extra $20 to boot.
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Postby kennyg » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:24 pm

Against a known good player I would check on the turn here. If I didn't know the player (like you didn't know at the time), I'd probably fire out a $50 bet. That way I can't be bluffed with an over the top raise and I'm protecting against any draw.

There are just too many calling stations online not to bet this. I'm continually amazed at the bad play I see on the tables. It gets worse and worse everyday.

One other thing.....did the possibilty of him holding QQ or JJ occur to you? I would have put him on AA, QQ, or JJ. If he has AA...he gets my stack. That's the problem with being out of position :)

Actually come to think of it... I had a hand last week that illustrates this point:

.50/1.00 NL. We both have around $100
I'm dealt [Kc][Ks] in the BB. A MP player makes it $6 to go. Folded to me, I reraise to $21. He calls.

FLOP $44.50
[9c][Ts][3h]
Innocent looking enough. I lead for $30. Opponent cold calls with little hesitation. (Uhoh...looks like AA)

TURN $104.50
[9c][Ts][3h][6c]
I move all-in for my last $42 praying he's a moron holding QQ. Opponent hesitates then calls. He has JJ, gets no help and I win a very nice pot.

KK is the second best hand if poker...if I'm against AA then so be it...I'm gonna get my money in unless I have a good idea (read) that my opponent holds a set.
"I'll take KennyGs advice before Sklanskys every time. "
-Iceman

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Postby iceman5 » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:14 am

I know you didnt check the river to for this purpose, but once again this proves what I keep saying. Checking the river in hands like these will induce people to bet their missed draws.

In this particular hand I may well have checked the turn, but when he checked behind me, Im 90% sure Im ahead. I thought he had AQ of clubs. (only after he checked the turn)
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Postby Mad Genius » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:23 am

I would have put him allin on the turn. I would be more inclined to put him on AQc/AJc or TT-QQ rather than a set. Besides, if you check he can bet with a variety of hands and you are put in a tough spot. I think it's really hard for you to get away from this hand if you are behind to a set, so you might as well put the money in. A lot of hands worse than yours will still call.

By the way, what MTT did you win last night? I just started playing them again 2 nights ago and have made the money in 3 out of the 4 MTTs I've played in since, but haven't had any luck getting to final table.
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Postby Stelvask » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:42 am

thanks for the responses all. i thought AQ of clubs for a brief moment, but even then i was suprised at the flop call, and even more suprised at the turn check. i wanted to get to a showdown with this hand, and would have been willing to play for a large portion of my stack. however, i felt that by checking it i could reduce the possibility of having to play for everything. to be fully honest, AA never occured to me - it probably should have... but just didin't. his turn check confused the hell out of me more than any other part of the hand.

And mad, it was the 4:30 (i think that's the right time ,PST) 10+1 PLO/8 on stars. 300 entrants in it. i've been cashing regulary in both this tourney and the midnight $10+1 PLO, including two 10th places and a number of top 25. this was my first final table though. so much fun. :)
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