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Help! Flopped top two pair in 1-2 NL live game. - Live Poker Forums

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Help! Flopped top two pair in 1-2 NL live game.

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Help! Flopped top two pair in 1-2 NL live game.

Postby growlers » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:05 am

You may not know me, but I am one of those limit dorks that still exist.
This was in a live 1-2 NL game while I was waiting for my 8-16 seat. Please be nice, the limit guys know I offend easily and have poor self-esteem.

I have [9d] [Tc] in the BB. This is ten handed, this was a brand new game and this is literally the third hand so no reads at all.

Relevant stack size:
Me $200 (table max)
UTG +1 ~$150
MP1 $100

UTG (wearing his Full Tilt gear head to toe) raises to $10, UTG +1 calls, MP1 calls, two other callers, SB folds, I call.

Flop (6 players - $61 pot):
[Ts] [9h] [7s]

I check because I'm clever, UTG (preflop raiser) checks, UTG+1 bets $15, MP1 calls $15, everyone else folds to me, I checkraise to $50, UTG + 1 calls $35 after hesitating, MP1 calls $35.

Turn (3 players - $211 pot):
[4c]

I go all-in for my remaining $140 which I assume is clearly correct.

Begin the slaughter!!!!!

And please tell me do I still go all-in on the turn if turn card is:
1) [2s]
2) [8d]
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Postby emmasdad » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:13 am

If you are going to c/r you need to make a real c/r. $50 isn't even 1/2 pot. Since effective stacks are $150 and a pot sized c/r = $121, a real check raise involves betting all of your chips.

I like the CRAI line fwiw. Looks bluffy and you might get called by someone with overcards or an over pair. Just try not to get sucked out on.
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Postby k3nt » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:58 am

The [2s] and the [8d] both would suck a lot and they are the reason that you check-raise like you mean it.
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Postby T-Rod » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:55 am

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Postby growlers » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:42 pm

It just seems nuts to me to shove $200 out there after a $15 bet. I kinda know enough NL theory to know that the responses here would be I should have bet more, but it just feels wrong to do this. I still don't get the reasoning behind it.

Now I realize part of this is that the guy made an underbet based on the pot size, but I still am unclear as to what I am trying to accomplish here on the flop.

Do I want these guys to fold? I have no specific reads, but the $15 lead seems like a "feeler/small piece" bet after the PFR checked and one has to assume the caller is drawing. The caller has only $75 or so left after her initial flop call so it seems like she is coming along no matter whether I CR $50 or $1000.

Don't I probably want the first guy to call? Or maybe even come over the top all-in? It seems like the CRAI gets action from him with his best range and discourages actions with the stuff I crush anyway.
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Postby growlers » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:48 pm

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Postby emmasdad » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:02 pm

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Postby Rhound50 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:20 pm

"Its a pink handbag not backpack damn it." Godlikeroy

"From playing full tilt I wanna smash every garden gnome I see. That travelocity commercial puts me on instant tilt."
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Postby kokomo44 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:33 pm

Your raise basically did nothing. it made you play a big pot OOP with half the deck being scare cards. your raise is so bad you would be better off calling the $15

If you going to raise you must raise the pot +- 20%. Or shove shove shove.
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Postby RedBarracuda » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:57 pm

i chck/pinch AI Image
Image
(6:35:48 PM) giantgrwth: I once beat up an attempted murderer, 25% true story
(6:35:59 PM) hard2tel45s: boxing?
(6:36:06 PM) giantgrwth: Yea
(6:36:14 PM) hard2tel45s: sweet
(6:36:30 PM) giantgrwth: He was my best friend too, lol
(6:36:48 PM) hard2tel45s: well u were in the crazy bin bro
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Postby growlers » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:40 pm

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Postby ua1176 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:20 pm

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Postby growlers » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:11 am

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Postby PhilipJWitow » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:02 am

The thing is, the flush chaser is making the CORRECT play by chasing here with those odds. Think of it in this way, you're making $35 from the UTG+1, but you're risking having to fold the turn if an 8,J, or 6 or any spade comes and you are pushed into, losing a $211 pot.

On the turn, a missed flush or straight draw may also simply just not call you. I mean on the flop yeah why not? But on the turn? Not very good odds at all. The A9 won't call unless he hits two-pair and than he really is ahead. So you're only really making $35, but you're potentially losing a lot. Just better to push, win money sometimes by FE, win money by draws chasing incorrectly, lose some by simple bad beats. :P
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Postby iceman5 » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:39 am

Hands like this are the very reason I started playing NL after originally playing limit.

I can check raise enough to make people get the hell out of MY pot...or pay dearly to chase chase chase like they love to do.

I either lead out full pot or CRAI. Any other play with this pot size, this action and these stack sizes is not a good idea.
iceman5 [As]
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