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Hit my 2-pair on the river, but... ($50NL 6-max) - Live Poker Forums

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Hit my 2-pair on the river, but... ($50NL 6-max)

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Hit my 2-pair on the river, but... ($50NL 6-max)

Postby stickdude » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:53 pm

Villian has been pretty aggressive so far...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) from (Format: Bet The Pot)

saw flop|saw showdown

CO ($61.25)
Button ($26.50)
SB ($32.40)
BB ($12.40)
UTG ($22.85)
Hero ($79.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP with [Js], [Qs].
UTG calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) [Jd], [Td], [7s] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $1, UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, SB folds.

Turn: ($5) [Ah] (3 players)
BB bets $0.5, UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $4, BB folds, UTG raises to $7.5, Hero calls $3.50.

River: ($20.50) [Qh] (2 players)
UTG bets $13.85 (All-In), Hero ?????

If he's any deeper, I think this is an easy fold, any shorter, and it's an easy call. He's right at that in-between point, though. :(
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Postby Jossnaz » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:14 pm

Thoughts of a beginner:

well actually - why didn't you raise flop?

What were you thinking when you called turn?
I fold to his reraise 100% if i dont have a read, you're behind here

I fold river (because I fold too many riverbets)
Although Villain most likely puts you on Ax.... the question is on what hand would you put villain which would legitimate a call. If villain puts you on Ax and he raises you all in... well perhaps he really only has Ax himself, but well... perhaps he bluffed but i'd not put 13$ behind to find out.
Any king has you beaten here


as mentioned, i'm a beginner.... I don't mind a call if you think of dan harringtons law of bluffing 10% + maybe 20% that he in fact is holding Ax, JT or J7 so you'd be fine calling
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Postby Semillon » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:52 pm

I'm guessing he either had a strong ace that turned into a better two pair, or he had KQ and made his straight on the turn.

As suggested, if you are going to play this hand, make a strong reraise on the flop, $5-6 should do it?
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Postby stickdude » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:16 pm

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:11 pm

Raise preflop, don't call: UTG limped which is usually indicative of a weak to medium strength hand - your hand will play well against his range and if you raise you can get a HU pot in position vs him a good % of the time. You also gain control of the pot and will win with a CB when you miss most of the time, whereas if you limp and others limp, you're almost never going to win the pot when you miss. Raising also helps build the pot for when you hit a big hand and makes it easier to get someones stack in by the river. It also prevents a good player from raising out of the CO or BTN with a weaker hand than yours yet taking the pot down on the flop because he has position and control of the hand.


Raise or fold the flop, don't call: Ok so you limp and hit TPGK in a multiway pot on a very draw heavy board. It's unlikely you're behind to a better jack (KJ and AJ usually raise preflop) or a set (JJ/TT/77 also usually raise) but JT and 89 are possible holdings for your opponents. That said however, {KQ, J9, J8, T9, T8 AT, A7, 78, 79, random diamonds} will make up a larger portion of your opponents hand ranges and you are ahead of most of these (only behind to combo draws) therefore a raise is best: 1) you probably have the best hand and want to make draws pay, 2) you will usually get the pot HU or even take it down right there, 3) it makes the hand easier to play and prevents you from making a large mistake later in the hand, ie, if you just call the flop and the turn is an offsuit 8 and you're bet into, you may make a mistake by folding being scared someone has the straight when infact you had the best hand and they were bluffing with diamonds, or you may make the mistake of calling when they do infact have the straight. If you raise the flop and get called and the turn is the same 8, you can either bet representing the straight yourself, or you can check and control the pot size trying to get a missed draw to bluff the river or possibly a hand like JT to check it down with you.

One other point i'll make is that BB only bet half-pot and UTG simply called this bet - both these actions indicate drawy hands from both opponents.

Turn is tricky: You got yourself into a bit of a mess by playing the hand the way you did up till now. The turn isn't a good card for you as KQ now got there and any ace with diamonds is now ahead, but the BB minbet which signals a draw and UTG simply called also suggesting a draw. It's possible he is slowplaying KQ or 89 or something though. I don't HATE a raise here but I think I prefer to call. You're essentially getting a free card and have probably 4 or so outs to win - but you should probably still play the river semi-catiously unless an offsuit K hits. Once you raise and UTG re-raises, you're really looking at 4 outs, yet you could be drawing dead to a split in which case you have 3 outs. Even though you're getting insane odds I don't think they're good enough, so just fold here.

Fold the river: What hand do you beat? Missed diamonds without a K. Two low diamonds almost never plays the turn the way UTG did therefore you're almost certainly beat, so now fold.

All-in-all you played the hand fairly poorly. I think you need to work on understanding poker on a deeper level - trying to understand WHY you should raise in certain situations, why you should make each action and what it will accomplish; think about what hands your opponents are most likely to have and how you should play your hand best accordingly.
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Postby Semillon » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:39 pm

That was a really good post roy, I second the call to understand why, this is something I am trying to work on myself - if you are able to understand the mechanics of the game, then you can come up with your own successful play style based on the action at your current table.
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Postby stickdude » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:06 pm

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You cracked my Aces... prepare to die"
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Postby black_knight6 » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:01 am

Last edited by black_knight6 on Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:10 am

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby Zmej » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:18 am

Nice post Roy.

You basically giving my thought process almost word-in-word here. :)

With exception that I don't mind a limp preflo. Limp is ok, and I disagrre a bit about aggressive player raising OTB and taking the pot later. If Button raises, UTG is going to call in 90% of cases (there could be SB or BB coming along too), so you'll end up with a miltiway, which I don't mind for this type of a hand. If we go a step further aggresive button could 3bet you here (if you raise) and you are going to muck it almost 100%. Still that's a question of style and personap references, mostly I prefer to keep pot smaller preflop. (As long as it is built enough to win my opponent stack postflop.)
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