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KK - Home game style - Live Poker Forums

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KK - Home game style

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KK - Home game style

Postby briachek » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:27 pm

NL HE $.25/$.50 blinds, 6 handed. You have about $20 which is the buy in for this game and you are in the BB.

UTG raises it to $1.50. He is a slightly loose player but doesn't get out of line too much. He doesn't raise too much but when he does, it means strong ace or a pocket pair (not necessarily a high one).

UTG+1 (LAG) raises it to $3 total. He is definitely a LAG that loves any hand with possibilities like connectors. He overvalues Aces, no matter the kicker and often overbets the pot. He will get tricky and limp reraise with hands like AJo. He also has no problem getting his money in with marginal hands, especially once he commits a decent amount of chips. Example, if he raises $4 and you got all in for $20, I can only remember seeing him fold once in this situation because he was on a complete bluff, otherwise he's calling with ANY draw. His aggression wins him lots of pots uncontested.

Folds to Button who raises it to $8 total. He a semi loose player with average aggression but I had never seen him raise a reraise like this. His raises always meant good pocket pair or strong (AT or better) Aces but never seen him '3-bet' like this.

Folds to me in the BB and I look at KK. All players have about the same stack as you but the LAG who has everyone covered.

I am confident that the LAG will likely play even if I move in because he will put us both on overpairs and feel he has the "odds" to call.

What do you do? I know its all in or fold, but a case can be made for either. Results after some responses.
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Postby devilmollusk » Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:19 pm

Take a long hard look at the Button player. How does he look? Is he comfortable? Does he want callers? Forget about the agressive player for the moment. If he shows you pocket Aces and beats you, oh well. But can you get any sort of tell on your other friend over there? You know this an odd bet for him, but he can be agressive. You know your range of hands... probably QQ, AK, AA. Which is it? Was his hand shaking at all when he made the bet? This would indicate a very strong hand.

The only way you DON'T push all-in is if you can pick up some sort of tell off him. Otherwise you push in and tip your hat to the Aces he turns over.
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Postby briachek » Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:35 pm

The main tell was that I've NEVER seen him raise a reraise like this so it just hit me as AA. I've played with him quite a bit. He COULD have another big pair or AK but I would think that unless is was AK, QQ or better, he definitely wouldn't reraise and he would likely just call with AK anyway. So I would put him on AA, KK (unlikely) or QQ (eh). There were no physical tells that I could determine, just betting pattern.
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Postby devilmollusk » Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:46 pm

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Postby Rhound50 » Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:03 pm

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Postby briachek » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:58 pm

Being that I've never seen him '3-bet', I put him on AA. I've had reads like this before and ignored them because "I have KK, how can I fold?" so I folded. UTG folded and UTG+1 called.

Flop was TJ3 rainbow. UTG+1 went all in and button called. UTG+1 had 87 offsuit for a gutshot and the button had TT for middle set that held up and won a nice pot. UTG had 33 and would have flopped bottom set and then lost his stack. I guess my read was off but my result was good.

This is the first time of at least 10 times that I was involved in a hand and KNEW someone was on AA but was actually wrong with my read. Of those times, I had big hands 3-4 times but this was the first time I dropped KK. I have dropped JJ and my opponents had QQ and AA ( I would have rivered a J).

I surprised no one would fold. I only invested 50 cents and there was a lot of information pointing to AA and very little folding equity. I thought if there was a time to fold KK, it was situations like this.
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Postby devilmollusk » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:13 pm

Ok, but was your fold the correct play? Do you think button would have called an all-in bet? His call would have been the mistake. More than likely you take all of UTG+1's money, or else pick up the money sitting out there pre-flop.

The time to fold KK is not when you think the guy has AA but are only facing a modest raise... it is when you are facing an all-in bet. I just can't see pre-emptively folding your pocket Kings here based solely on a betting pattern read. Sure you don't have much money invested in the pot, but you have the second best starting hand. You beat every hand but two aces pre-flop.

Having said that, I commend you for being able to muck your kings there. I have never mucked pocket kings pre-flop. Maybe that is a sign I am not a good player.
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Postby briachek » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:54 pm

we each only had $20 at most in front of us, some with a little less due to blinds and moderate losses. with 50 cent blinds, a raise to $8 is 16xbb is a large raise for a semi-friendly home game from a player who doesn't raise a reraise ever before. A $5 raise on top of a $3 bet is a modest raise and I am positive at least the button would have called an all in preflop. Possibly the UTG+1 player because he has that tendency but the side pot would have only been a couple bucks if that.
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Postby Rhound50 » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:03 pm

Briachek, I don't think I would have folded here but I still like your fold here, it takes a good poker player to lay down a hand as strong as KK preflop when you think your beat. Like I said I think its 50/50 that you are ahead preflop and you are most likely gonna be all in vs 3 players.
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Postby Yogadude » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:56 pm

If everybody was able to make a living off of their hobbies the world would be a much better place.
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