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Party $600 NL KK Hand - How would you play it? - Live Poker Forums

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Party $600 NL KK Hand - How would you play it?

Hand analysis. Post your trouble hands here

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Party $600 NL KK Hand - How would you play it?

Postby Jav » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:35 pm

Here's a hand from a couple days ago that I found interesting. How would you have played it? $3/$6 blinds.

Hero is dealt KhKc in the SB with a stack of $2263 before the blind. EP3 calls (stack of $1182), and the C/O calls. I raised to $36, the BB folds, EP3 calls, and the C/O folds. So we see the flop heads up.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, 5d, 9d ]

Pot of $84. I bet $100, and EP3 thinks for awhile and minimum raises to $200.

What hands does he put you on? What do you put him on? What do you do? EP3 had not been at the table for too long, but had doubled up about 10 minutes ago. He seemed slightly loose preflop, but I didn't see any hands where he was noticeably out of line.
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Postby briachek » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:40 pm

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Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby k3nt » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:58 pm

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Postby Jav » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:01 pm

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Postby briachek » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:41 pm

Brian [Js][9s]
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Postby k3nt » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:58 pm

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Postby Jav » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:32 pm

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Postby palman » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:26 pm

I don't know what to tell you. In deep stack poker I'm not even sure AA and KK are profitible hands. I hate them, give me a 68o every time.
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Postby eliteprodigy » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:22 pm

Im right tehre with Palman. QQ KK AA are costing me money, my money making hands are the small ones than crack others big ones. I'm really going to start slowing down on big hands and play for smaller pots.
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Postby palman » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:48 pm

Big pairs in position are fine, you simply bet strongly at the pot, hope they smooth call their monster if they have one on the turn, and you can just check behind on the turn, with the intent of calling most anything on the river.

Since you check on the turn, the pot will be small enough you can safely call without risking too much, and the amount you lose by losing the pot and giving a free card is often made up for people value betting weaker hands/bluffing. On this hand in particular if he doesn't have you beat and has a pair, he only has 2 outs so the free card is not disasterous. Actually it's likely beneficial because that pair is more likely to value bet than catch a card to beat you. A flush draw is a different story.

In this case it's tricky because he min-raised on the flop.

Barry T. once said in NL "there's nothing wrong with resisting to the slightest bit of resistance" in NL, even if that means folding a big hand. I realized just how correct he is yet I haven't fully taken the advice to heart.

In this example, you can simply fold to the min-raise on the flop, because you fear you may be beat, and you'll be forced to call off your whole stack just to find out on later streets.

The telling thing here is that you represented an overpair by your preflop raise, and you're representing an overpair on the flop, yet he's still raising you. The only justification for calling/pushing is being up against an overaggressive player/bluffer... or relying on your opponnent being an idiot.

This isn't a profitable situation for you to push here because there's virtually 0 chance that he will call you with a worse hand. Sure your K's could be good, and you may get bluffed out here, but you're in a bad position because there's no chance he'll call with a weaker hand to a push. (unless of course, again, you are relying on the opponnent idiot factor)
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Postby k3nt » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:41 pm

Wow! Palman agreed with me! I must be smarter than I thought.

Palman's earlier thought on deep stacks screwing your AA and KK hands is interesting. That may be another reason to play what ATE called TMAR (take the money and run) at typical 100BB buy-in tables. Once you double or triple up your good hands can be trouble. So take the $$ off the table, go to a new table, and start building again. An easy way to reduce variance?

Thanks for the hand. I gotta say with my limited bankroll, I'm amazed that you can lose about twelve hundred bucks on one hand and then post the hand saying only that you found it "interesting." :shock:
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Postby iceman5 » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:57 pm

Jav, pushing all in there is the absolute worst thing you can do. You dont want to play a monster pot with one pair, when you both have double stacks.

Since both of your stacks are so big, he could easily have called your preflop raise with 56s and would be correct to do it if your going to push all in with an overpair.

I wouldve called the min raise and waited to see what he does at the turn. I wouldnt have a problem folding the turn if he bet big enough.
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Postby Jav » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:40 pm

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Postby Gregor » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:57 am

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Postby MVPSPORTS » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:21 pm

Just putting my insignificant 2 cents in...

I agree w/ Ice... I would call the min raise to see if you improve... If you don't and he raises a lot, I would fold... It's a tough laydown, and he could be bluffing, but theres a lot of cards he may have called your preflop w/. I'm obviously not in your league cash wise, but I have a hard time putting my whole stack out there if theres not a pretty good shot I'm sure I got the winning hand.

p.s. I'm w/ you K3nt... these guys are playing hands for more than my car is worth... :D
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