Oh, here's one last thought ...

This is a nutty (no pun intended) strategy that is the complete opposite of a short stack approach. I put about 10K hands with it, because ... in theory ... I actually felt it might work. Now, it looks like an insane strategy to follow, but when you consider the hideous play out there ... and that you only need one caller over the course of a few hours to turn a solid profit ... it starts to look reasonable.

Well, I was down about two buy ins over the course of 10K rounds playing it, and decided to abandon it. I will say, though ... I had a couple REALLY bad beats in that time, so I should have been up. And likely would have once I hit 20K. However, this is purely speculative.

The added bonus is that you could conceivably do 100 tables at a time. No changing tables required, completely mechanical.

That said, I couldn't see it as viable for anything higher than the small stakes ... still, it's something to ponder.

Enough from me. Here's the wacky strategy, from some cat named Smasharoo ...

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once again smash.What is the strat?
011 468 789 1236

Oh for fuck sake:

Fold *everything* but pocket pairs and ace high flush draws. That's right, fold KQs. Fold AKo. Really. Yes. Fold them. Yeah, I'm sure you make money with them and play great postflop, etc. Whatever, fold them. You want as much money in your stack as possible for when you have amassive edge.

Limp with QQ. Yes, that's right, limp with it. Fold it if you don't flop a set. That's right. Yes, fold it. Limp also with JJ-22. If you don't flop a set, fold them.

If you can't limp, call a small raise with any of these hands. If you don't flop a set, fold.

The 1 time in 8 you do flop a set, go all in. Go all in if you act first. Don't check raise, just move in. Go all in if you act last. Don't check hoping they bet into you on the turn, just move in.

Also play Axs preflop. Limp with them. Yes, limp with AKs. If you flop a flush draw and can draw cheaply, do. When you make a nut flush on the turn or the river (or flop one) go all in. Cackle gleefully at K high flushes calling you.

If you have AA or KK preflop, just go all in, from any position, any time, against any number of limpers or none or whatever. Just move in.

That's it.

Fold everyhting else. To sum up, here's the strategy that beats LL NL for more BB/100 than 99% of the NL posters on this forum:

Play pocket pairs and Axs preflop, fold everything else. Move in preflop with AA and KK, limp everything else, or get in as cheaply as possible.

When you flop a set, move in. When you make a nut flush on an unpaired board, move in.

That's it.

Good luck.
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Best,
Zim

(Again, this sort of approach to the game is exceptionally limited. You won't learn how to play poker, so the best you'll ever do is make some money if you manage to come up with the right "formula". And I believe there is far more money out there from learning to play a competent game, and it's more rewarding as well. However, I tossed this in the thread because I believe it is very similiar in philosophy, if not application, to the small stack strategy. Essentially, mechanically shoving with a hand driven approach to the game. With the shortstack strategy, you push small amounts with small edges. With the Smashstrategy, you wait longer for monster opportunities and shove your monster stack in.)

Pretty much agreed with what everyone is saying here.

I will say that Smash's strategy sorta weened me off of the small stack approach I was taking, so I do have some fondness for it. But when I noticed I wasn't getting called, ever. I simply started making pot sized bets with overpairs, sets, etc ...

Thus, the set mining, nut peddling AA-22, AK was reborn ... yet again. I wonder how many players every year rediscover it?

But back to the original thread ...

Hey Johnny, have you experimented with Jim Roses, AA-QQ, AK strategy? Just on a lark, I've been dabbling with it on the side. Simply because all my shortstack strategies were always much more complex. My best results were had by playing a shortstack using Ed Millers starting hand selection from GSIH, with Gordon's post flop advice put forth in LGB, so I never really believed that such a minimalist strategy could ever return a profit.

I'm running between 2-3 PTBB/100 hands with it right now ... but I don't really believe it.

When I go through the various shortstack permutations I've tried in PT, it seems that were I to limit myslef to only those 5 hands ... my profits would have been cut directly in half.

Still, the fact that it is still turning a profit amuses me to know end.

Maybe I need a life, lol.

Best,
Zim

Using the "Short Stack experiment", how much do you let the blinds chip away at your short stack, before reloading. I'm trying it and having a lousy run of starting cards. I'm playing two $50 NL tables at PokerRoom, starting with $20 and have reloaded when stack down to $17. Should I be reloading whenever it's below $20?

Thanks.

Here are my shortstack hands from tonight across 400, 600 and 1000NL

I pushed with 10's in the BB after a few limpers and SB raised it up, figured he might be on a steal as he was pretty aggro and figured it would be a coinflip if called. He had AK and he won

I pushed with AQo in M/LPafter a couple limpers (there was a LP poster too), CO called with AQs and we split

I limp reraised all in UTG with AKo, there were too overlimpers and then a pot raise, limpers folded and raiser called, He had KQo and I won

Limped AQ o in EMP and reraise pushed on 17 bb after button raised to 4bb, he called with J10o and my hand held.

UTG opened for 4bb and I pushed on 20bb in BB wiht QQ when folded around to me and he folded

I pushed AKo in SB after ep limper. bb called and limper reraised big. He had AA and I lost

I pushed with JJ vand A4s limper called and I double up

I raised AK in blind and was called by limper and SB. K high flop and SB lead and I pushed and he folded I won

I pushed KK in emp behind a limper and all folded

I pushed with AA on a 16bb stack in blind after 3 limpers but all folded

I pushed with AK on a 16bb stack after a limper and AQ flat called as did the limper with Arag and I trippled up

I pushed with 99 in blind on 12bb after a short stacks raise to 3bb in lp he had JJ I sucked out (bad play by me here, as well as overplayed a couple above)

Up 3.5 short stack buy in's about 1 1/2 hrs of 4 tabling.

I know the sample is meaningless just threw this out there for the hell of it. One important feature of short stack play is to recongize who pays attention to your play and adjusts

I think it would behoove all of us to stop talking about this subject, unsticky it, and let it die. With the latest book by Sklansky and Miller, many many people have looked into shortstacking. Many have found success. The higher limit games across nearly all networks are now infested with shortstack artists. Just datamine any of the sites and it is clear that shortstacking can and does work. As for the future of the game, I think we need to write sites and get them to bump up the min buyin to at least 40BB (as Absolute does) or the sites are going to become 70%+ shortstackers...ugh.