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Two Hands Please Help me out - Live Poker Forums

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Two Hands Please Help me out

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Two Hands Please Help me out

Postby Jason D » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:42 pm

$100NL $1/2 Blinds Live at the Casino

1. 2 limpers to Hero on the button looking down at [Ac] [Ks] I make it $10 to go EP1 calls

Flop: [Kd] [4h] [5c] EP checks Hero bets $15 EP calls (I have almost no read on the guy but he doesnt seem to be tricky)

Turn: [8s] EP checks Hero bet $25 he check-raises to $60 more (I have about $100 left)
Hero folds, EP doesn't show. Weak? I was very reluctant to fold but something kept saying 67s or 2 pair is what he was gonna turn over.

2. 2 limpers, MP makes it $7, 2 callers around back SB calls Hero is in BB with [Ac] [6c] I call, 1 of the limpers calls. Pot is $44

Flop: [6d] [8c] [Tc] SB checks Hero bets $15, both limpers fold MP (pf raiser) min raises to $30, LP1calls, folds to me. I move in for $70 more after the call (Make no mistake I did not want a call there and I had seen MP min raise on the flop with a naked AK earlier. I figured if the LP guy calls with a flush draw I would have him nutted though, and I am even money against any top pair except AT). MP folds, LP thinks for less than 30 seconds and calls.So get this he turns up [Qc] [Jh] for a gutshot and 2 overcards??????????

Turn: [Qh]

River: [Kd]

And I walk away extremely annoyed. Any thoughts?
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Postby Yogadude » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:30 pm

If everybody was able to make a living off of their hobbies the world would be a much better place.
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Postby Rhound50 » Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:04 pm

"Its a pink handbag not backpack damn it." Godlikeroy

"From playing full tilt I wanna smash every garden gnome I see. That travelocity commercial puts me on instant tilt."
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Postby Jason D » Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:24 pm

Thanks for the input guys, on the AK hand I should have taken control of the pot and then I could have called a relatively small bet on the river. Howard Lederer talks about this concept in his 2nd video.
Ok for the 2nd hand I know it is not smart to call raises at all with Axs especially out of position, but since it was only $5 more to me and the chance that at least one of the limpers called also, wasn't I getting odds to call the $5?--It looks like it was almost 9:1 I was getting on the call
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Postby Smokin'Al » Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:57 pm

I quite like the flop call in hand (2), because the stack sizes and your position are perfect for a rare check-raise on the flop, if you connect with 2 pair, trips, or a flush draw. Your pre-flop odds were about right for flopping one of those three, I think.

$44 in the pot, you have $93 ... so you check, if someone bets $25 then a pot-sized raise puts you all in. On good days there's a caller or two to the first bet who then fold to the raise (or eg the bettor reraises to isolate you) and creates some dead money. Sometimes you even take it down on the flop with a draw, which would be a fantastic result.

But if you play this way, you have to be pretty philosophical about losing your stack frequently, even if it's to QJo :)

Jason: could you explain your comment about "taking control of the pot" (I haven't seen Lederer's video, am interested).

FWIW on hand 1, I check behind on the turn, unless I have the opponent pegged as an idiot or a maniac. If I have them pegged as an idiot I probably fold to the raise; if he's a maniac, my money's going in.
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Postby k3nt » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:05 am

I also am interested in what "taking control of the pot" means!!

I love the fold in hand #1. If he's not tricky then he's got you beat. A non-tricky player check-raising can always beat TPTK. You've told him clearly what you have, and he's told you clearly he can beat that. You should thank him for telling you before you were tempted to bet again on the river.

Only advice on the 2nd hand is get that dude's name in your fish book. Wow what a crazy call on his part. Calling stations are money in the bank.
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Postby Jason D » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:44 am

For those of you like me, who saw Lederer's first video and were too disappointed to bother watching the second one (More secrets of NLH), I would strongly suggest that you watch it. I am sure the very experienced players know the concepts in the 2nd video, but he brings up quite a few things that I had not thought about, especially having to do with tricky situations. One of these concepts is Pot Control.
The basic idea of it is in the situations when you are either way ahead or way behind, when in position you are able to control the size of the pot while losing less when you are behind, and winning a decent amount when you are ahead. We can take the hand I played above as an example:

After raising w/ AK on the button and getting 1 caller I bet the flop when a king falls and the player calls. Note that the other 2 flop cards were a 4 and a 5
On the turn when the 8 falls, I could be way behind to either a straight or 2 pair and there is always the threat of a set of course. By doing what you all suggested and checking behind on the turn, I turn it into a 1 bet situation--If he bets the pot on the river I will probably call, but as you can see a player married to the AK would have lost money if he bet the turn because should he call the check raise he is also going to face another bet on the river.

If you put this into a tournament setting, let's say I have T8000 at the start of the hand and raise it to 600 pre-flop. Say the pot is 1500 on the flop and I bet 900 and get called.
Pot is 3300 on the turn. If I bet again when that 8 comes and I am behind he is going to raise me all-in. However if I check behind a couple of things can happen:

a. He bets about the size of the pot and I can call or fold without committing all of my chips if he has a better hand
b. He bets about the size of the pot with KQ or worse, and I make money without having to committ too much

In Lederer's example of this he has the board paired on the flop which is a somewhat similar way ahead/way behind situation.
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