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There is No Joker in Poker - Live Poker Forums

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There is No Joker in Poker

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There is No Joker in Poker

Postby Poquette » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:21 pm

Unless, of course, you want to include me. My poker guru TUP would not be pleased with this characterization, and believe me, neither am I! And I'm hard at work on improving my self image.

By way of introducing myself, I am a recent graduate, if you will, of TUP's series of low-limit no-limit workshops. And I am sooooooooo glad I made the effort to attend. TUP shortened my learning curve by light years. I still have a way to go to put everything TUP presented into actual practice, but almost each time I visit a poker room, I can feel the gradual improvement.

I've only played live poker about a dozen times or so in California and Nevada -- perhaps 15 if you include the recent home games. The first few times I was in a Las Vegas casino were spotty -- lost, won, lost, lost. Then I went on an amazing win streak, and I had myself believing that if I continued at the current pace, I'd be able to fund a trip to Europe in October with my winnings.

Last Saturday I came home with the biggest win ever -- $257. This may seem like lunch money to some of you, but considering my lack of experience, I thought it was pretty good.

Then on Sunday disaster struck! I managed to lose about $125 on a single hand. I had pocket kings and managed to not only misread my oponent but thoroughly misplayed the hand as well. I quickly bought in another $100 to bring my chip count back up near $200 (by the way, this was a $1/$2 $200 max buy-in and I had started out with the max). I was somewhat shaken by the loss but didn't go on the usual kind of tilt. It was more of a hunkering-down-licking-my-wounds kind of tilt. I felt my confidence evaporate. It took me about two more hours and the gradual loss of another $125 before it began to dawn on me that I was in over my head at this table. It was apparent most of the other players were way more experienced than I was, and I finally realized that I needed to get out of there immediately, and I did.

Usually, win or lose, I like to think that any time at the table is beneficial as long as I am learning something from the play of hands and the action of other players. But when the confidence has been damaged and the concentration disrupted, there isn't much benefit in being there.

I have been castigating myself for being so dense. Why did it take three hours to figure out that this was the wrong table? Looking back over my short career, every time I had a losing session, I was at the wrong table for someone of my relatively light experience. So one of my challenges right now is to get my radar up and running earlier in a session to help avoid serious loss.

By the way, one of the many topics TUP covers in his workshops is this issue of table selection and psyching out the various types of players. It is a good idea to have some notion of who to stay out of the way of, who is the table bully, and who even I can push around. I seem to have forgotten about this last Sunday.

I was so shaken by the turn of events that day that I have not been back to a poker room since. It wasn't so much the $250 loss as it was the total collapse of my game. Even though I always give myself a bit of a pep talk on the way to the casino -- "Pay attention, don't get cocky just 'cause you've had a few winning days" -- it all seemed to go out the window.

I also realized that even though I paid attention in class and understood all the concepts TUP presented, there are actually two levels of the learning curve. It is one thing to understand intellectually. It is quite another to take the information, internalize it and make it part of one's arsenal.

For example, one of the ideas TUP has emphasized is that one's goal in no-limit should be to bust your opponent. I heard him say it at least half a dozen times over the course of three workshops. But instead of taking that and running with it, I adopted it as part of my defensive posture. It is as thought I was thinking, "Wow, I'd better look out. These guys out there are gunning for me." It finally dawned on me yesterday that "Oh, this means me! My goal is supposed to be to bust my oponent! So instead of checking my pocket KK on the river, I should have probably gone all in, thereby in all likelihood winning a huge pot rather than losing $125 (this conclusion based on after-the-hand chat with my oponent).

This is basically why I'm giving myself time to do an attitude adjustment. I plan to play poker this weekend, but I am trying to process all this and get over the breakdown of my game last weekend.

It was actually TUP who suggested I keep a journal on line so he can read it. I have read his journal and a few others here, which I no doubt will comment on at some point. I look forward to your comments as well, if you should feel so inclined.

More later . . .

Poquette
Poquette

I was misinformed. There is, after all, crying in poker. :cry:
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Postby Kuso » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:24 pm

i'm sure this is a dense question, but...

TUP=?
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Postby Nortonesque » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:33 pm

TheUnknownPlayer. He was pretty active on BTP when it started, and is now quite busy running poker classes in Vegas.

http://livepokerforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=276
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Postby Poquette » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:15 pm

Poquette

I was misinformed. There is, after all, crying in poker. :cry:
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Postby bobby » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:18 pm

Last edited by bobby on Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TheUnknownPlayer » Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:55 pm

HIya guys and gals!

I'm still here off and on, skitting in and out of the room - if for no other reason then to sporadically check how big it's gotten. And of course, still sending my students by this way. I've been super busy though and am finishing up a book at the moment - really finishing, as a matter of fact, I discovered Poquette had an editing background and she's hammering away helping me get the book to publisher standards as we speak.

Anywho, I shall be around more as time allows - a few projects to wrap up. ")

TUP
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Postby Rhound50 » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:59 pm

Poquette,

Welcome to BTP, TUP is a great teacher you already have a step up on most of the new players. BTP is a great way to improve your game in a hurry, reading some of the regulars in
the NL section is a great way to learn.
"Its a pink handbag not backpack damn it." Godlikeroy

"From playing full tilt I wanna smash every garden gnome I see. That travelocity commercial puts me on instant tilt."
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Postby MecosKing » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:01 am

Poquette--

Hey there. Notice Rhounds words of encouragement came AFTER he found out you were a girl? Dont pay attention to him, he ADMITS to having gone seven years without sex, but lots of us think he's 'forgetting' a couple of extra years in there somewhere. Its only been four years for me, as i am forty two times the man he is. Uhm-- yeah im pretty sure that math works out.

In any case, yeah, what he said. This is a great forum, with the exception of having people hijack your journal with posts like this one.

Good luck!
NorthViewBTP: poor old ED
NorthViewBTP: from gun totin beer swiller
NorthViewBTP: to limp wristed defender of fagdom
NorthViewBTP: ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN
NorthViewBTP: IS THE SAME AS NO THINGS TO ANY MAN
--------------------
Mekos King: NV ignoring
Jimmy BTP: he's ignoring me too
Jimmy BTP: obv fell asleep in his colostomy bag
Jimmy BTP: running shite everywhere
---------
neelguru: I gave up politics when I was 6
neelguru: Im dedicating the rest of my life to getting unstuck
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Postby Poquette » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:17 am

Greetings all!

I am pleased and delighted with all your friendly responses and welcoming messages. As TUP mentioned, I have been slaving away on his manuscript and actually have not made it back to the poker table this weekend. But getting his book into the hands of the public is a higher cause and I am heeding the call, as it were.

Before this goes much further I need to disabuse some of you of an understandable misconception. It is true that I am of the female persuasion. However, it has been several decades since anyone referred to me as a "girl." Beyond that, I have nothing further to say on this subject than that, out of kindness, you understand, some gallant types might describe me merely as a woman of a certain age. I wish it were otherwise, but there is nothing I can do about it but accept it gracefully. I hope we can all still be friends anyway!

Gotta get back to the manuscript now. Alas, the next installment of my journal is going to have to wait. But all in good time.

Later . . .
Poquette

I was misinformed. There is, after all, crying in poker. :cry:
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Postby TheUnknownPlayer » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:31 pm

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Postby Poquette » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:49 pm

Easy for you to say, TUP! You are just barely out of the nest! :)
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Postby Poquette » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:08 am

Dear Diary,

I played poker today for the first time since the debacle almost two weeks ago. The break I took to work on TUP's book was just the thing I needed to clear the cobwebs and reestablish the confidence, etc.

TUP has written a killer book. I can't wait till it hits the streets and I can buy copies for all my friends. As an alumna of TUP's workshops I can tell you that he has included in the book a generous helping of professional advice designed to turn the reader into a winning player. Beyond that, I probably should say no more without clearing it with the author. We worked at a feverish pace right through the Labor Day weekend to get it whipped into shape. Trust me, it is going to be THE book in its niche.

So I went back to my old familiar haunt this afternoon. There was one seat open at one of the four $1/$2 blind $200 max buy-in no limit tables. Things were hopping. I sat down in seat 9 as a wild hand was in progress. Four people were all in and three of them split the pot -- they all had J9 to complete a Queen-high straight. It was a huge pot but they all essentially got their money back plus a small contribution of early bettors and the other poor guy who went all in with a set of something -- I can't remember now what it was. After that, there were three other split pots during the first hour, one of which I was in, where a full house appeared on the board. So those of us left after the river split. This really was a get-your-money-back proposition.

After I'd been at the table about 45 minutes I finally played a hand where I had JT suited and the flop came Jxx. I was hoping for another J or a T but it didn't come, and since I hadn't played a hand except the split pot since I sat down, I decided to play it out and figured that if I lost it would at least be good for my table image. It was impossible to put anyone on a hand because these were very loose aggressive players at this table. Obviously, there were many hands that could beat mine, but the board didn't pair and there were no straight or flush possibilities. I decided to try to bull my way through to the end, but unfortunately the only other tight player at the table had actually flopped two pair and, regardless of my agressive betting, he wasn't going anywhere. When we turned over, I had lost about $75 on the hand. Oddly I wasn't too upset because I knew it was a calculated risk, and as it turned out, it did help my table image because the effect was that at least one player got the idea that I would bet when I didn't have much.

Shortly after, I was dealt As7s in the big blind and nobody raised pre-flop, so I checked to see it. The flop came Axx and I decided to bet out and see where things stood. I put $30 out which was about one and a half times the pot, and all but one folded. The opponent was a visitor from Switzerland who looked to be college age or thereabouts. He was very cute, very charming and after calling my bet he had about $37 left. The turn came something nondescript, and I bet $50 which more than covered his stack. The Swiss kid looked at the board for a long time. It was as though he was trying to will one of those cards to change suits, or something. Maybe he was just trying to figure out what I had. He really wanted to call but he had already gone to the cash machine twice to rebuy chips and he decided finally to fold. I didn't have to show my hand, and it turns out that aggressiveness paid off because I heard him tell his friend that he had two pair, which would have beat me. He obviously put me on three aces, and he knew I was a rock at this point. But hey! I was happy to rake in this little pot. This got me back up to about $175.

About a half-hour later I caught pocket Queens on the button -- the best hand I had the entire session. There were seven callers to me and I raised to an even $10 just for the heck of it. The blinds folded and I got four callers. The flop came rainbow rags and everybody checked to me. I decided there was enough in the pot that I'd be happy to take it down right there, so I made it $35 to go. By the way, one thing I had observed about this table was that these guys were all like online players who will stay in, checking around all the way to the river in case they might catch something at which point the real betting begins. So my $35 bet was kind of an informed bet. I was assuming that since no one bet or raised that I probably had the best hand at that point. But with people like this, you can never be a hundred percent certain. All but one folded and the turn produced another rag. My opponent made as if to bet but then thought better of it after he looked at me and saw me smiling at him. (The charm offensive at work!) So he checked, I made it $50 and he called. A Jack came on the river and he looked to see how much I had left -- about $80 -- and he put me all in. I called immediately. Much to my surprise, he was apparently bluffing because he folded when I called. So effectively I doubled up on that hand. I may not have played correctly on the turn. If I had bet, say, the pot on the turn, he might have folded then. I wouldn't have doubled through, but I think in retrospect it would have been safer. I may have been counting too much on the ragged board. But it was a big pot, and I was happy to win. As I have said, however, I do well against players who are worse than I am. I should be so lucky to meet guys like this. I am still scratching my head!

A couple of hands later, the Swiss boys ran out of money and left. Two other people stayed for one more hand and then got up to go. I decided to go as well. The dynamics of the table were evaporating. I'd been there two hours and left having played exactly four hands (plus I saw a couple of flops and folded) with a net profit of $176 -- not bad for a rank beginner.

I think my execution still needs some work. I took some risks here and I never had the nuts. But I'm pleased with the results. I'm pleased with my discipline and my willingness to bet out aggressively. And most of all, I am happy to have notched a winning session. I seem to have emotionally forgotten about the bad day a couple of weekends ago.

But I do have one psychological problem that lingers and I wonder how common this is. (A problem, you say? Okay, there are more than one, but let's deal with first things first!) When I get ahead I suddenly don't want to put my winnings at risk. I start thinking about leaving the table and pretty soon I do. Consequently, I usually end up with a short session of one or two hours if I am winning. I like to win early before people can see that I have a tendency to fold ad infinitum. If I am not winning, then I end up staying for hours in a kind of paralysis. It becomes too late to bet because if I do everyone folds and I get no action. I have almost concluded that short and sweet is best. But I would like to get over that desire to quit while I'm ahead but before I pick up some big bucks. How can I do that? Has anybody out there experienced this?

Later . . .
Poquette

I was misinformed. There is, after all, crying in poker. :cry:
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Postby Kuso » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:30 am

six hands?!? were you card dead using a TUP-approved pre-flop strategy, or did you only play "top 15" hands or something like that?

also, when you feel like you are seen as a rock and get no action, do you ever go on pure bluffs and represent whatever the board is offering? even if you have to show it down for a loss, it will often get you lots of action with your good hands in the future.
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Postby Poquette » Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:20 am

Poquette

I was misinformed. There is, after all, crying in poker. :cry:
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Postby Tiburon » Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:52 am

"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
--JJSCOTT2

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