Maybe I am being misunderstood or not stating it correctlly. But even AK vs 10,J is a race IMO. AK if the favorite but not huge. Plus there are still 3 players left to act. are the results going to be different if you just call vs. going all in?

No I don't think he has PP or AK I have no idea what he or the players left to act have but he isn't putting his trn on the line you are.

I'm not saying it's a bad play or that I wouldn't make it exactlly the same way. I am just playing devils avocate.

In the 50K on full tilt I was short stacked. Howard Lederer raised enough to put me all in. I had A10s in the SB and called his raise. He had KQ. He won the hand with a set of Q's vs a pair of A's. If I had AK I would have still lost that race.

I'd have to say that I do disagree that AK vs two undercards is a race.

For example:

AKo vs JTs is 59:42 (3:2)
AKo vs TT is 43:57 (2:3)
AKo vs ATo is 73:27 (3:1)

In two of the above situations, I'm getting the better of it - and in the middle situation I'm getting slightly the worse for it.

In terms of whether the raise makes a difference I think it does.

I've got 13k, the player on my left has 16k. The SB has 40k and the BB has > 150k.

By just calling, I'm at 7k and the player on my left has a choice - call 6k (37% of his stack) or fold or raise for a 10k raise. If he just calls, SB and BB will easily call - same if he just folds. If he raises (which I'm sure he would, given his cards) - they are in the same situation - but I'd rather have fewer hands against me.

I guess maybe our difference in opinion is the number of people in the hand. I'd rather be heads-up with the original raiser (or take the pot uncontested); I think TK is saying he'd be fine have all three players coming in. Given that tournaments are about survival - I would say that having many players in is going to hurt you more than help.

If there's multiple callers - you are no longer in a race - you are in a desperate situation with 30% equity at best (likely).

Of course, I'm talking this around and around and I don't even know which way is up...

/d

I want everyone in the hand because if I don't hit I am toast whoever has the PP. The PP is going to call if I go all in or if I just call. If Button and BB just call the pot is now T24000. Since we are worried about odds Now all I have to do is bet T7000 to make T24000. Most players will call for all your chips preflop but lay down there hand for only T7000 post flop if they missed there hand or have a small PP with an over card on the board.

Remember scare cards don't only scare you.