I have been playing the $25 pl at party to clear my bonus. In the last hour I have lost with bottom set twice. Both Times I was in the blinds once with 22 and once with 44 (sb). How do you guys play bottom set? the first one with 22, I was up against a maniac, and I'm willing to take my chances. The second on I was against a good tight player and I should have folded to his all in on the turn. How do you guys play bottom set??/

very carefully and often not much stronger than top two pair, which means pretty weak. If you get a call, then they could still be on mid set so you don't know what you want to hit on the turn or river. Pairing the board could kill you still.

If you get raised by anyone but a maniac, its time to fold IMO. If its a maniac, then you are still likely ahead but maybe not by much and it will add to your variance.

For me, the only thing worse than hitting bottom set is hitting trips with a pretty good kicker because you never know exactly where you are and often need to fold to a reraise because they either have the higher kicker or they are full. You often win a small pot or lose a big one.

Yeah that is pretty much what I thought you were going to say, thanks Brian.

don't close the subject til some of the most experienced players respond but I think they will say the same thing I just did.

I am pretty sure you are right, I havent played a lot of PL in a while. I felt a little rusty, the first hand vs the maniac I would play the same way, but the 2nd hand I was kicking myself when I reraised and he went all in, I knew I was done, but I had to call, I still had a weak low draw and was hoping he was playin a high only hand and might be able to get a lucky chop.

With deep stacks and a big field, I usually check fold bottom set.

In an online game, lead with it and get it straight in the muck as soon as anyone else perks up and makes raises. Be very cautious of basically just about every card that could possibly hit. Small sets play much better in position, so give small pocket pairs no credence whatsoever in the early seats.

Get out of the holdem thinking of bottom set being a good hand. It is a whole world of trouble in PLO. You can win some good pots in the cheap games with it because people will go in with garbage a lot more often, but you should still be very wary of it and back off or even fold it outright to a bet or a raise. As brian says, I would never play this hand if someone has put a raise in, and generally I would fold to a bet with it; certainly, if player one bets pot and I am next to act, I fold my bottom set. You have to either face up to the fact that sometimes you will fold the best hand (with bottom set) OR, if you always play for your stack, that quite often you will put your money in drawing to one out. Folding the best hand is definitely the lesser of two evils so don't think you're passing a monster just because you sometimes muck bottom set.

In the small blind with your set of 4's, I think you should lead out unless there is a very good reason not to do so (an utter goon next to play who will bet and raise with any four, for instance). Once you meet some resistance, then yes, you should lay it down. Sometimes PLO can be tough though, and just because you called when you were dead doesn't necessarily mean you made a horrible play. So take heart in that, and play VERY conservatively with bottom set from now on!

Monk
xxxxx

Bottom sets really have little value in PLO as you have seen. However, in PLO8 - with a solid backdoor low - I think they actually have a good deal of equity. In this case, you can afford to be a little more confident with them because you have the backdoor outs to go with them. The same could be true in PLO if you have other outs to straights or flushes.

This really abuts the typical issue at hand in Omaha games - people tend to play a two card game and miss the fact that everyone else is playing with four. Even though you are in the SB or BB with these marginal holdings, you need to be careful to go very far with them. You might have the current nuts - but unless you have redraws - you could very well be in rough shape. Also, since someone could have a higher set on you (and this happens quite frequently), it is often right to just be cautious with it.

Hope that helps some.

/d

Thanks everyone for the help