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i begin to hate empire...

Postby euri10 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:19 am

This hand happened at new Empire 0.5 BB

I'm in MP with [9h] [Th] [8c] [9c], I limp and the button (65$) raises pot, 1 EP caller (45$), I call (55$), we are 3 in the pot (about 11$)

Flop is [8s] [4c] [7h] and it is checked to me, I check and Button raiser checks. Is this check here questionnable ?

Turn is a [Js] giving me the nut str8, EP checks I bet pot (11$), button raises me pot (33$),EP folds and I reraise all-in. Too agressive, do I need to give him a cheap river ?

River is an 8, I lost this pot facing [Jc] [Jh] [Ks] [As].....:(
I cried because I had no draw, until I met a man with no pair>>>MVSPORTS
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:05 am

Well, that's tough luck as he only has 17 outs and you have the other 23... but I guess it happens. He might be freerolling here (same straight with a draw) but by the turn there is too much money in the pot (and not enough left in your stack) to really do anything other than put it all in.

I would perhaps bet that flop but only if I think the opposing players may lay both their hands down. If no-one will fold there isn't much reason to bet it. Your pair gives you a bit more strength if someone decides to call on a draw, which makes betting slightly more palatable (i.e. if you bet, get one caller and it's checked down you might still win it with 99, unlikely but it does happen). But the only reason to bet here is if your opponents are reasonably tight and will pass hands like AA and KK.

Monk
xxxxx
The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby euri10 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:21 am

it's pretty obvious that his raise on the turn can be viewed as a freeroll, but in this case given the fact that he has about the same outs as I have, should I reraise him to cut his odds ... ?
If he raises me, I'm quite sure he won't fold to a reraise that puts me all in on the turn, so would there be any justification not to reraise him on the turn ?

2dimes on this hand on the flop gives a small %tage favorite for my hand (I'd thought it would have been more) :
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=804737
pokenum -o 9h th 8c 9c - jc jh as ks -- 8s 4c 7h
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 8s 4c 7h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
9c 8c Th 9h 426 51.95 394 48.05 0 0.00 0.520
As Ks Jc Jh 394 48.05 426 51.95 0 0.00 0.480

and on the turn :
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=804738
pokenum -o 9h th 8c 9c - jc jh as ks -- 8s 4c 7h js
Omaha Hi: 40 enumerated boards containing Js 8s 4c 7h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
9c 8c Th 9h 24 60.00 16 40.00 0 0.00 0.600
As Ks Jc Jh 16 40.00 24 60.00 0 0.00 0.400
I cried because I had no draw, until I met a man with no pair>>>MVSPORTS
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:46 am

I don't see a better way of playing it than getting all in on the turn. Worst that can happen is you give up a freeroll; best is that perhaps he is messing about with a hand like JJ or even just a nut flush draw with an open-ender or something. It's not a great spot but by the time he raises you on the turn you're pretty much committed and so I think I usually just dump in the last few chips here.

An alternative play I have just thought of is that you call the turn and bet any river. If the board pairs or a flush comes and he has the same straight with no redraw, he may fold and give you the pot. If he had the boat/flush draw you don't lose any more money by betting your dead hand on the river than you would've by moving all in on the turn; perhaps this is the better play against a very solid player, but here I think there is still a slim chance he has a worse hand than you on the turn so getting all in is marginally better. Doesn't hurt to consider other options though!

Don't lose any sleep over this hand. You played it fine.

Monk
xxxxx
The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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