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check raise with nothing

Postby platypus » Thu May 25, 2006 5:32 pm

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Postby mike_m235 » Thu May 25, 2006 7:33 pm

I do it, from position, from time to time, against guys who raise quite a bit preflop. It works, but you better pick the right mark. Ask yourself "who are the 3 best players at this table" and then don't try it against them. Make sure the check raise is big enough to take it down...pot sized. This is a once every 100 hands kind of play. And be prepared for a lot of variance.

Another variation on the same play...just float his continuation bet on the flop from position. Then if he doesn't fire on the turn, bet half the pot and steal it. You invest less money this way.
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Postby Cooper » Fri May 26, 2006 2:41 am

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Postby bkholdem » Fri May 26, 2006 6:01 am

I do it occasionally/sparingly OOP with nothing or with a draw. Some players will lay down an overpair on a drawless flop when minicheckraised 'getting away cheaply from a set' lol (most times they might be up against a set so this is why it's a good play against a player who will make laydowns). So it can be sweet to take a pot with an underpair on the flop off someone with KK haha. Of course others will look you up.

There are benefits of doing it on a drawy board (as in you have outs, I would prefer to do it with a straight draw rather than a flush draw as it's much less obvious when you hit) too.

Of course if they have nothing it will usually work no matter what you have. Knowing your opponent and your own table image are important factors.

The other day I took a pot off someone with pocket 4's in the BB by checkraising the flop (he had an obvious big pair and I was hoping no set) and pushing the turn. He timed way down before folding, I showed and he went on tilt.

I also bluff raised the turn on another table (I had 99 and didnt raise this time from ep and there was a J high on flop and Q on turn) after the preflop raiser checked the flop and bet the turn. He had KK and checked the flop to trap me. When he checked the flop and bet the turn I put him on AK but it was a mistake as he would have lead with that on the flop very often. I was really stupid for me to make this play as I would have raised JJ or QQ pre and would have bet a baby set almost always on the flop when checked to. So he had me cold here. He called the raise and checked the river, I gave up the play and checked behind.



At baby stakes you can just 16 table pocket pairs and set mine and rake in a nice hourly earn. Once your up against players who have also moved up in stakes and pay attention and are winning players and they see that every time you raise you have it, well they are either trapping you with the 1 or 2 hands that beat you, are getting odds to draw (immediate or implied), or they are done with the hand. Who wants to play a big pot against an opponent who your note on them says "tight and never bluffs or semi bluffs" or something to that effect?

On the best playes at the table:

That is a relative idea and the truely best players do not often lay down the best hand.
A default strategy against a tight player would be to give them credit but some good players may also decide to float your checkraise to see what you do. Flat calling a raise is a powerful play, especially in postion. If you have a set and a flush completes on the turn what are you going to do? Bet and fold to a push? Does he now have AKs instead of KK because he cold called your checkraise and the third heart fell?

I am beginning to realize just how powerful postion is if played well by a smart player with stones. Something I need to work on is consistency with representing hands on future streets that flow with how I would play something preflop and on the flop. I think I need to do it single or double tabling to get used to it rather than 6 tabling though lol.
If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.
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Postby T-Rod » Fri May 26, 2006 8:14 am

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Postby Spank_her_Pair » Fri May 26, 2006 8:46 am

CR bluff works well on a Ace high board. Because the PF raiser has to fold if he doesnt have an Ace.

Also, the size of the CB can often tell the strength of their hand. Its better to CR when villian puts out a weakish bet; especially if the last few CBs you saw villain bet were stronger.

Furthermore, a combination of a Ace hi borad with a weak CB by villain means Check-Raise him..
[5c] [7c]
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Postby iceman5 » Fri May 26, 2006 12:12 pm

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Postby Yenool » Fri May 26, 2006 1:58 pm

Holdem Newbie...
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Postby bkholdem » Fri May 26, 2006 5:16 pm

If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.
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Postby WayToGo » Sat May 27, 2006 10:37 am

Taking shots, one at a time.
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Sat May 27, 2006 10:53 am

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby AlexMR » Sat May 27, 2006 11:10 am

[17:16] alitomr: http://micropenis.ws/forum/viewtopic.php?t=723
[17:19] mekosking: wow
[17:19] mekosking: i give that poof a week tops
[17:19] mekosking: before he snuffs it
[17:19] mekosking: I THINK THAT MAY BE NV
[17:20] mekosking: IN DISGUISE
[17:20] alitomr: LOLZ
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Postby bkholdem » Sat May 27, 2006 11:21 am

If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.
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Postby Yliherra » Sat May 27, 2006 1:14 pm

At least on Party full ring, both in 50s and 100s, trying to get the preflop raiser to fold usually isnt't worth the trouble, at least if they got position. They are likely to call u down with just about anything.

Just today someone raised me 5 BB from the button and I called from the SB with JJ, for a heads up pot.

Flop was AA10 rainbow. I checked, and he made a pretty weak bet. I reckoned me might not have the ace and checkraised him pretty hard.

He called me down with KQ, a for gutshot straight draw on a paired board. Turn was a J and he got stacked for being a megadonk, but without the jack I prolly woulda had to fold..
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Postby mike_m235 » Sat May 27, 2006 2:08 pm

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