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OOP v PFR - lead, c/c, or c/r? - Live Poker Forums

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OOP v PFR - lead, c/c, or c/r?

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OOP v PFR - lead, c/c, or c/r?

Postby EscapePlan9 » Wed May 24, 2006 11:19 am

You like all those acronyms and abbreviations? Yeah, I know you do.

Here's a situation where I never know what's the best play. Assume you're against an unknown who seems like your typical player at NL50. He raises 3x BB in MP and you call in the BB with 77.

Flop: 28J rainbow
There's not many hands you're worried about. JX and big pairs, that's all. But what's the best way to play this type of hand?

Lead out
a) half-pot: He might think it's a weak lead and raise you with whiffed overs, or just call and see if you continue the aggression on the turn. Unless I improve on the turn, I'm done with the hand.
b) 2/3 pot or full pot: Why would you be so eager for him to throw away his hand on a board like this if you were ahead? Then again, your typical player doesn't think too much about his opponent's possible holdings.

Check/call - Harrington recommends this against a continuation bet, but only if you're in position so you can float him on the turn. OOP is much more difficult. The turn can easily bring many scare cards. I don't like this line OOP.

Check/raise - If he doesn't have anything good he more than likely will dump his hand here. But there's one big problem: this is an expensive line to take. Otherwise, I think this is the easiest way to take down this pot, and perhaps most profitable.

My typical line is to lead out betting a little more than half-pot on this drawless board. With a possible flush draw I'd bet closer to pot-size. Occasionally I'll check-raise here.
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Postby Alchemist » Wed May 24, 2006 11:32 am

I lead out option b and I bet pretty close to full pot. I want to take down the pot right there as too many scare cards can potentially come on the turn i.e. anything above a 7. If he calls, I'll fire again about 2/3 pot on a safe turn card apart from that I'll shut down.

Occasionally I'll mix it up and check-raise to a weak CB. A full pot CB I fold....getting too expensive with only 3rd pair
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Wed May 24, 2006 2:09 pm

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Postby bkholdem » Wed May 24, 2006 2:59 pm

Try rerasing with that hand preflop sometimes. There is a pretty good chance he has no pair (AK, AQ, AJ for example). He can also have 1010 for example. By rerasing prelop and leading on the flop, if you were in his postion what is the minimum YOU would call with on that flop?

Instead of check folding your hand against AK/AQ making a cbet you get more money in preflop with the best hand and take it down on the flop a lot. Not saying this should be your default play but something to think about. When someone reraises from the BB, how many times do they NOT take it down preflop or on the flop?
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Postby poker2006 » Wed May 24, 2006 3:32 pm

-- andyG [Ah]
I try to learn something new every day. Winning comes by itself.
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Postby Yliherra » Wed May 24, 2006 3:52 pm

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Postby MVPSPORTS » Wed May 24, 2006 5:21 pm

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Wed May 24, 2006 6:34 pm

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Postby T-Rod » Thu May 25, 2006 7:30 am

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Postby Spank_her_Pair » Sat May 27, 2006 12:38 am

The check-raise may seem like its investing alot but it also has more fold equity...

If the pot is $10 and villian CBs for $7. the pot is $17. If you re-raise to $17 then you are investing 1-1. However, this weak of a CR will not get a draw to fold or TP usually.
You need 50% fold equity to break even, therefore some kind of read would be nice so you can get your villain fold % up to 60%+. If you do this regularly an observant opponent (oxymoron) might notice if you check-raise stronger with your real hands. So when the board isnt draw heavy, I try to make the same small check-raise with my monsters.
[5c] [7c]
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Sat May 27, 2006 12:58 am

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Postby Runner_Runner » Sat May 27, 2006 2:21 pm

I really have to agree with MVP and Tim here -- it's this kind of donkey crap that's cost me night after night - keep the fun stuff for $200 and above. No one folds.

Especially with TWO overs.
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Postby ua1176 » Sat May 27, 2006 8:16 pm

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Postby bkholdem » Sat May 27, 2006 8:57 pm

If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.
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Postby EscapePlan9 » Mon May 29, 2006 1:55 am

I lead with a set there near 100% of the time. I don't do it to mix-up my play, I do it so I can get the most action from overpairs, TPTK, and the likes. Think about it... you raise PF and hit TPTK. Someone lead bets into you, what do you do? Fold? I don't think so. You probably raise.

And yes, at NL50 people do fold to these bets. I know because I've done it a few times - but I do pick my spots. I make sure that they raise pre-flop somewhat regularly and aren't calling stations. I take down the pot more than 75% of the time here, and when I don't, I'm done with the hand and don't lose any more.
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