7 BBs with KK after 4 limpers? Standard.

In a live game I wouldve made it more like $50.

Maybe, but I know the players pretty well (mixed of course with new faces), and I've actually heard that the players here are much better than in Tunica or Vegas (at least up to 10/20).

But it's also the closest and most reliable (barring a 5/10 at a kind of seedy casino that runs every Tues.), and I'm averaging about 14 BB/100 after 25k hands, so I don't feel like that's horrible. There's only 1 other player in the game that I'm pretty sure is a clear winner, however (basically a pro who is constantly putting on this kind of "goofy" act but is actually extremely strong--particularly in PLO, where he's just completely dominant). I guess there are also a few others who are probably in the 5-8 BB/100 range (typically in principle good looser players who have bad runs, get frustrated and then also start playing much worse than what they're capable of).

I still haven't been down to Winstar (let me know via PM if you plan a trip down there, as it really would be fun to finally actually meet), but what everyone up here says is actually pretty consistent with what you're saying: "Lots of crazy action" is the usual comment. I hear similar things about Vegas, although I've never played there either.

Also do note that most of the moves that speak against big raises in this game (specifically the tendency to trap with a limped AA, etc. from any position) also have their downsides--as these same players have enormous trouble getting away from limped AA hands. And it's probably also one reason why I've stayed pretty consistently profitable: If I limp AA in EP and don't get the opportunity to re-raise, I'll bet but am very aware of scary boards and know how to get away from the thing whereas most of these limpers seem to think they have some kind of lock.

... in contrast to a guy last night who limp-called a raise from QQ, then moved in for $600 (!!) to a $50 bet from QQ on a 678r board with a pot of only $100 prior to the QQ bet AND players left to act. I SO wished I had had a set or the straight on that one. This guy is getting ready to get gutted if I can catch a hand at the right time against him.

Anyhow, there's plenty of stupidity to go around (and I also still make too many bad plays, just fewer than most), just a fair degree of caution in calling PF raises. Another example: A player who has kind of disappeared from the 2/5 lately and gone back to 1/2 told me that he wouldn't call a PF raise of more than $20 with a low PP in a 2/5 game. While I've seen him in point of fact playing contrary to that principle, that's at least his "theory," which I didn't make a lot of effort to correct.

Another dimension here is that everyone still is constantly saying of me that I'm the tightest player they've ever seen and that they assume (this more as a joke) that they're beat if I even limp. When that kind of table talk gets going, I usually increase my raising frequency to about 10% but typically don't increase the quantity of the raise. I still want my 2 callers if I'm raising 54s, which I really do only when I think they're putting me on the typical big raising hands.

Also, my sarcasm here was really directed less at you than at shob, who went way out on a limb with this thing and unfortunately got me second-guessing myself on something where I was quite comfortable and which works (for me in this game barring the presence of certain extremely loose callers).

I think the main thing is simply that raising quantities are game-specific. If someone posts a hand where they raise to 12 BB and get 1 caller, I may comment that the raise looks big to me. But I'd at least like to think that I wouldn't call it an important mistake in the hand, because at some tables 12 BB is perfectly fine imo--just not at the game I usually play.