Here a limit hand from this morning. I limp in MP with [Ts] after another limper.
Cutoff limps and both blinds are in. 5 to the flop.
The pot is $10 and the flop is [2h][2s]. MP bets, I raise, cutoff 3 bets and its folded back to me. The pot is now $22 and its $2 more to me. The cutoff plays every hand. What do you do the rest of the hand?

Fold thinking he plays every hand so hes more likely to have a 2?
Call the 3 bet and check/call him down?

I don't mind calling him down here as long as the 3rd heart doesn't hit. If a ten or King hits, I wil checkraise on the turn...and you still have a backdoor flush draw. Call and take another card off...

I assume this guy is aggressive as well as loose since you said he plays every hand. And if that is the case, I will probaly pay off his 3rd 2 if he has one...I think a loose player would like to bluff on a board like this because he is probably not putitng you on a two or anyone else...

I really don't like your limping with K10s here in MP as you get yourself in exactly these types of situations more often than not.

I like your raise of the EP better. I would have called or perhaps reraised the loose player's three bet and led again on the turn barring a heart. I don't put him on a hand that can beat you that he would three bet on the flop. He would have likely raised with A10 and all other over pairs preflop and I think that if he had a deuce he probably would have waited to pop you on the turn. Good luck.

So youre saying that you would raise with AT on the button after 2 limpers?

If I played it yes. I just don't like check calling when I flop top pair with a good kicker and my kicker is usually an Ace. When I play brick and mortar games with the same line up or for an extended period of time with the same folks at the table as tends to happen in live play I will vary my play somewhat to keep them off balance as best as I can but in ONLINE games it just doesn't pay to get involved with mediocre hands in bad position. I play 4 to 5 tables at all times and voluntarily enter about 14% of the hands. This for the most part is just stream lined play your big hands and add the pocket pairs when you are in late position with the requisite number of callers with very few other things thrown in against particular opponents or situations. I think the biggest problem that poeple have when playing online or brick in mortar as well is they just play too many hands that they think are winners and when the smoke clears they wonder why they only won a little bit or lost. Play the hands that keep you in the drivers seat so that you can be betting and raising rather than calling because you just aren't sure where you stand. Someone made a comment about my play the other day saying that I was tighter than a frogs ass and it is waterproof. He wasn't too far away but that still didn't change the players from calling my UTG raises. Good luck.

Im no sure you understood my question. If you were my opponent in that hand, would you raise preflop with AT on the button after 2 limpers?

I understand what you said about playing tight. Im at 16.2% so far in my limit experiment. Im just not sure about raising with AT when I KNOW theyre all going to call. Im not fond of AT at all, even in position.

I would not raise on the button with AT after two limpers under almost (everything depends in poker) any conditions.

Aha! I already thought of an exception... a 3-handed game. But normally, it's not going to happen.

If I was on the button and I knew that YOU came in from middle position then I would have folded preflop but against alot of fields I would raise here in attempt to drive the blinds out and get it to 3 players with what is very likely the best hand preflop.

If you don't care much for A10 then you should really hate K10:) I can almost count on one hand the number of hands I enter from EP and MP (7 to be exact) and they all include a raise preflop. If you ever see me in a limit table and I limp from EP (ca. 0.004% of the time:) you can put me on one of two hands looking for a reraise.

What about something like QJs in EP, but the table is loose passive. You still muck it?
In NL, I fold that every time, but I thought in limit you could play it there if you expect mulitway pots most of the time?

Hey Ice,

I can only tell you my perspective on the matter and alot of people may say I am a fool but after ten years of playing limit for a living and the last 4 of those primarily playing online I am telling you that playing such hands as QJs, KQs or not, AJo in EP will lead to no good or VERY MINIMAL gains at best. If perhaps I was playing just one table and had an extremely good read on the others I would loosen up a tad more but I can't say that I honestly have a precise read on all the players when I am playing 4 or 5 tables at once and therefore I accept that I may be giving up just a miniscule +EV from folding these hands but it keeps me out of bad situations I believe in the long run.

Just because you are at a loose passive table doesn't mean that a couple of people can't wake up with hands and punish you when you limp with QJs. I just choose the path that keeps me ahead of the field in the vast majority of situations and that leads to profitable play at online limit holdem. In the last 3 days just as an example I have posted wins of 52 BB, 107 BB and 69 BB. If my play is faulty I am damn well willing to accept the results:) Winning play at low to moderate limits in online limit holdem requires no imagination, just discipline to play extremely good cards and at least half ass ability to play well after the flop.

I hope you dont think Im arguing with you Piers. Im just throwing ideas out there. I agree with you that playing exrta tight is right. I probably play tighter NL than most people I play with it I like that style.
I havent played enough limit to know if playing QJs in EP is too loose (for a tight player) but apparently it is and I'll stop playing it. I also agree that I can fold 30 hands in a row and people will still call when I raise. Im going to tighten up a bit more in EP.

I did lose some money this morning with weak kickers in hands that I shouldve folded preflop (by our tight standards). I had a bad session this morning because of it. I'll tighten up tonight and post my update after I finish tonight.

What is your BB/hr? Im shooting for 2BB/hr per table playing 3 tables during this experiment.

Two big bets per hour per table is a very good target to shoot for and I think you will be able to obtain this up to the 3-6 limit level with solid play at multitables. 36.00 to 48.00 dollars an hour isn't too shabby:) This is the primary reason that I don't play much NL on line as I just can't win as much as I do playing limit without perhaps playing exclusively 24 to 510 blinds.

A person that has some ability and plays 36 limit exclusively added with a good rake rebate program can make over 100K a year if playing full time. Have I done this, NO. I have just found it hard to put in 6 to 8 hours a day playing online. When I was playing B & M I put in 8 to 10 hours a day without a thought and it seemed like nothing but I just haven't been able to do this online for whatever reason.

And I don't think you are disagreeing with me at all. From the few times we have bashed heads at NL I respect your play greatly and I know that you can become a dynamite limit player as well.