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Postby Dumb Snowman » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:03 pm

Partake in my bollocks, bloody chav!
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Postby ua1176 » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:05 pm

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Postby iceman5 » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:33 pm

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Postby ua1176 » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:34 pm

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Postby Dumb Snowman » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:30 pm

Partake in my bollocks, bloody chav!
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Postby iceman5 » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:53 pm

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Postby Dumb Snowman » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:21 pm

Partake in my bollocks, bloody chav!
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Postby rocketballs » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:20 pm

I think checking is a big mistake here. I'd gladly give up the AK CB (he may very well raise anyways if he's aggro) for a chance to play for a stack. If we've narrowed down his hand range to AA-JJ, AK, why wouldn't we bet this flop? If he has JJ/QQ he has a tough decision, but unless he's really tight, I can't see him folding, so we can assume he'll at least call the flop bet. But if we CR on the flop w/ him holding JJ/QQ, he probably folds that if he's decent, so we gain the same number of chips (assuming your bet = his CB) but now he has folded. Ice, if you put him on AA/KK all the more reason to bet out. Your hand is so disguised, if he has AA/KK, he probably equates your bet to a JJ/QQ feeling out-type bet. What's he going to do? Certainly not fold, raising will commit him, and if he calls, you have some options on the turn. I like a CRAI on the turn there.
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Postby DoctorHandles » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:49 pm

The better player should win the race. Always.
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Postby Aisthesis » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:13 pm

I agree with playing it slower but still like the c-r.

For whatever it's worth, (regrettably still not based on having actually seen you play lately and having even less of a concept as to what your play looks like 6max) I know I'd call you there with AA, and this would be my thinking: I figure, first, that you ARE capable of raising and calling a re-raise with a SC (which I doubt most people online can pick up on unless they've played a lot of hands with you). Second, I think you're capable of playing at least KK, AKs in clubs, any made straight, and possibly some straight draws with pairs (certainly at least 54s in clubs) this way. I think AA is far enough ahead of this range that I'd have to call, despite drawing dead to the made straight. I'm not completely sure I'd call with anything else at all, although I'd have to see what you look like in 6max before saying that definitely. I'd at least have to think pretty hard about it before laying down KK there.

The thing about the CRAI imo is that you really have to have an opponent who's not afraid to play for stack, and most people that I run into are. Hence, lots of LAGs willing to overbet are capable to taking down lots of pots because people are just too scared of these bets. The "fear factor" here is probably rather less extreme in a 6max 5/10, but I'm just guessing on that one. I think my judgment of the opponent in that regard would be the decisive factor in determining where between $400 and $600 I set my c-r here. I think he's pretty much hooked regardless of where you set it, though. $600 can also look a little more drawy/bluffy if you think you can get your opponent thinking in that direction.

I also think JJ is going to be a little difficult to get hooked anyway, unless he's like the guy you were talking about recently who'd take TT as overpair all the way.

Anyhow, if you bet out, you might have a little better chances against JJ, as it's going to look like a bet that takes down the pot with some overpair vs. a possible unimproved AK. Do you think most of the time JJ will flat call rather than raise in a 6max game?

I dunno, if you knew for a fact he had JJ, maybe something like a check-call would be best. Then you have to hope that the flush doesn't hit the turn since you're going to be looking like a flush draw (I agree with you on the AKs worry--it's rare enough that I'm going to get stacked if that flush hits, although I will worry if we get 4 clubs out there before all the money is in) on some kind of big suited A.

If he's on the WT side, he's probably going to let JJ go anyway, but I still think a smaller c-r ($400-$600) has a lot of potential. To my mind, the c-r just looks a lot more like you have the appropriate AKs draw. But JJ may not want to play against that one anyway unless you check-call. If he puts you on AKs, then in his mind, you're going to have 15 outs against him when he has JJ (or QQ for that matter, although QQ at least would reduce your outs if he thinks you might have AQs).

I dunno, I almost think the only real alternative to some kind of c-r is to check-call. And I don't like that mainly because if a club hits the turn, it's going to kill your action unless he has a big club.
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Postby iceman5 » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:19 am

I think the check raise to $500 tells him that Im going all in on the turn anyway. I think its either lead out.......check / call...or check raise all in (which looks like a draw or bluff as much as a monster)
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