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Low stakes SnG bankroll help required - Live Poker Forums

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Low stakes SnG bankroll help required

Postby Mr Rossi » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:56 am

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:50 pm

Welcome to our forums!

too many calling stations that can't be pushed off or muppets that call your A's with K10 and hit.

This is a good sign. When you have AA and anyone calls your raise, they are making a bad call and you are making money off them in the long run. With KT, they are so far behind! You're an 80/20 favorite! Try to examine these situations from the long-term perspective. In the short-term you might lose a bunch of these in a row, but in the long-term you win far more often than not.

There's a FAQ stickied that can help you with your questions on bankroll and ROI. Also on the main BTP page, there's an article on bankroll for SNGs. Off the top of my head:

For $11 SNGs
BANKROLL: 20-25 buy-ins; $220 - $275
GREAT ROI: 20-25% (15-20 is good, but 20-25 is great)
GOOD ITM: 40-45%

40% ROI in SNGs is definitely unsustainable in the long-term. Even by playing every SNG perfectly, you still can't win it everytime.

I would recommend sticking with 9 or 10 person SNGs. 4-6 person SNGs play out slightly differently and require more hand reading.

When I have to keep track of SNGs by hand I devised my own system:

Buyin (place) $$$ comments - is the general formula, like this:

55 (5th) AQ v AK
55 (2nd) $150

If I didn't place ITM, I don't record money. And if I don't have any comments, I don't leave any.

After finishing up my sets of SNGs, I keep the cumulative tally at the bottom:

SNGs: how many I've played since I started
Buy-in: total buy-in
Win: total win
Net: total net profit
ROI: total ROI
ITM: total ITM
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Postby Tressemy » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:27 pm

Greetings Mr. Rossi,

Let me start by mentioning that you and I are in the same boat with respect to bankroll, so the topic you posted is of interest to me as well.

On the issue of what tourneys you should be playing, my comfort level for $ 10 + $1 SNGs required a bankroll of $400. Please note that in retrospect, I think this was excessive, but at the very beginning, when things were rocky, it was nice to know I wasn't going to get busted out.

I agree whole heartedly with EscapePlan's ##s. An ITM of 40-45% is exactly where I am at and it feels about right for good play. A ROI of 20-25% is sustainable, 30%+ seems like it would be very, very difficult over a large # of tourneys.

I typically play 3 tourneys at once and find that it is a good compromise for me. With that many hands going at once, I find that I don't track player tendencies very well (i.e. I don't get a lot of reads). However, playing 3 tables at once allows me to be a lot more patient. If I am playing 1 table, I might see 10 hands in 15 minutes. I might get bored in that amount of time just folding over and over, and as a result I may start to make moves that are overly risky. With 3 tables open at once, I nearly always get action on at least 1 of the tables every 5 mins or so. It makes the playing experience much more palatable.

I track my results using an Excel spreadsheet. I keep track of almost the exact same thing that you listed, although I do keep a chart that tracks the total # of times I placed in each spot (e.g. 9 2d place finishes, 4 3rd places, etc etc). One thing that has really helped my play is the comments section. I actually keep two columns of this information. One column tracks my last important hand. For example, if I bust out of the tournament in 7th place, what hand was my undoing. I track my hole cards as well as the villains. Basically, the column says something like "AA v. T9suited". This way I have information about what hands eventually got me out of the tourney. My other Comments column is to note anything out of the ordinary. I might note that I was impatient or that I just got outdrawn, or that I was short stacked and desperate. Anything to let me know what happend.

I have found that over time as I refer back to my Comments, I am tracking leaks in my game. I am too fond of KQ. Ace + rag is a big problem as well. So I would encourage you to develop some way to track what hands are causing you to bust out of tourneys.

A final note, and I apologize for the length of my reply. From reading your post, I had the vague impression that you shared a problem I have had in the past. That problem is patience, or put another way, an inability to take a long term view. What I mean by this is that you appear to have some success and then you jump up in limits. This leads to a big downturn and you end up busted.

I try to combat the very same instinct in me by setting goals and/or limits. For example, I will play 300 $10+$1 SNGs before moving up a level. Or I might say that my bankroll must hit $600 before moving up to $20+$2, and that I will move back down if I lose $100.

Maybe you take a look at what your goals are and form a plan that you can live with. Be realistic. Track yourself. Make sure that you aren't hopping around in levels and games, making your chance of success less than it could be.

Best of luck.
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Postby Sunbob » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:20 pm

Welcome to both Rossi and Tressemy. Please do NOT be afraid to post questions like this. These are questions we have all asked or at least should have asked.

EscapePlan gave you a very good summary of the numbers so I won't go into that. BTW, listen to this guy - he knows what he is talking about. :lol:

Another good guide comes from a friend of mine from UB - Jennifear. Unfortunately she hangs out on another forum but here is the link to an article she wrote that gives a very good plan for the low limit grinder like us.


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Postby EscapePlan9 » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:37 pm

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Postby Sunbob » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:56 pm

Dang - you caught on. OK I give. UNCLE. :lol:
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