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AA, OOP, against a regular. 400NL, 5max

Postby Zmej » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:29 am

"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby Calaziar » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:58 am

My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people
would stop dying.
~Ed Furgol
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Postby black_knight6 » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:02 am

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Postby shamdonk » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:25 am

Be glad your opponents refuse to fold; if they didn't, you just might go broke.


(9:00:09 PM) GodlikeRoy: i think you could prolly post total shit for the next 2 years aaaaand like 192 days and you'll still be considered 'posting good' cause of your threads that'll never be seen thread
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:29 am

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby black_knight6 » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:37 am

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:41 am

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby Zmej » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:21 pm

Actually I thought about folding here.He is TAG but as many TAGs with a bit of nittinies. Shoving is not especially good here as I suspect he is capabale of folding AK here. And we don't have room for betting smaller and folding to reraise.

Anyway I called and he had KQo. That I didn't expect at all.
Probably Xaston knows how to deal with it, but it seems that reactions of opponents alter a lot when they see all this raises-reraises, etc. I mean if I played my normal TAG game no way he calls prreflop with KQo, I guess he would even muck AQo here.
"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby hard2tel » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:25 pm

Why the hell would he bet with something like KJ AJ etc when he'll only get a call from something that beats him?

This is a fold.
"But meh, what I lack for in talent and intelligence I make up for in lack of ambition." -- Oatmealforxmas

- make more than xaston and roy
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Postby black_knight6 » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:39 pm

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Postby DonkiFornication » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:21 pm

Last edited by DonkiFornication on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby shamdonk » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:23 pm

Be glad your opponents refuse to fold; if they didn't, you just might go broke.


(9:00:09 PM) GodlikeRoy: i think you could prolly post total shit for the next 2 years aaaaand like 192 days and you'll still be considered 'posting good' cause of your threads that'll never be seen thread
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:24 am

I thought I explained my reasons in my previous post, but here's a more detailed response.

I really think this is a check/fold, or shove on the river. When you check, what worse hand bets? There really aren't any hands I can think of. Therefore when he bets, you has you beat almost always. Sure there's a small % chance that he called preflop and the flop with total air, but what's more likely is he has some piece of the board or a PP and will be more than happy to check it down.

So by checking you get no value out of hands you beat, but you give no value to hands that beat you. Perhaps check/folding is the best line, but I really doubt check/calling is.

When you shove the river, you're giving him the opportunity to make a big mistake. He can and will call you with a pretty wide range after you checked the turn. AJ will call a lot, any king is almost always called (AK, KT, KJ) and maybe TT or a lower PP if your opponents are giving you no respect at all, and by the way Zmej described that he's playing, it sounds like his opponents are just begging for a reason to call him down light and snap off a bluff. Give them one. Of course he's never folding a hand that beats you, so this bet is purely for value. Is it there? I think so. I mean, if you're going to CHECK-CALL, shoving is a million times better.

The more and more I think about it, the more I think check-call is really bad here. Either check-fold or shove. Does this make sense?

Edit: K I just went up and read Zmej's post about "I think he'll fold AK to a shove here" which I think is really wrong but if that's the case, check-folding is the only play. I personally think a solid regular will have taken note to your over-aggro style of play and be willing to call you down with marginal holdings.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby DonkiFornication » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:52 am

I misread the board because I had the browser in a 1/4 screen when I replied without wearing my reading glasses.

We beat: AK (6), AJ (6) and JT (12). TT would have to retard to bet.
We lose to: KK (3), QQ (1), JJ (3), AQ (4), KQ (6), QJ (6). I'm ruling out AT and T9.

I'd bet $80 on the flop and shut down. That turn's gotta scare him as much as you and he's betting AK on the turn, but I wouldn't take weight off of it.I'd dwindle that with the weakness of JT and QJ's PF value by 75% just because he's solid and made that 5x raise after 2 limpers.

6 + 6 + (12*.25)= 15
3 + 1 + 3 + 4 + 6 + (6*.25)= 18

This call is +EV by 2:1, so you should make it. I'd make a crying call in the moment just for the 2.5:1 price. Even if the range is solely KK-JJ/AK, this is a +EV call by better than 2:1
Last edited by DonkiFornication on Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:57 am

I think he'd be retarded to bet JT, AJ, AK aswell as TT. When he bets, what worse hand in the world does OP have that he calls with? Also why rule out T9?

This call is -EV.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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