Seems Ive seen a few people at least try leading out in me, the PFRer. I usually raise these guys with whatever I raised with because most of the time they are on a weak hand or just trying to take it away because they feel I raise too much. At first, I was folding, but eventually I learned these guys pretty much have less than you do a good % of the time. 'Reverse float' - I like the name.

I'm going to have to lead into more of the WT's myself.

leading into the PFR is a Donk Bet. LMAO I think that's a HUGE mistake, I use the check-raise to slow them down on their continuation bets. When you CR you have to lead into them on the next card if they call or raise your Turn bet you are beat. If you CR the PRF on the flop, he HAS to have something to take that pressure. If he calls or raises watch out.

Most of the time when a player Donks the flop you just raise him (even with nothing if you PFR) and they go away. They usually do this if they have TPMK. If they call they have TPTK, Overpair, or 2pr min, and you have to slow down or give it up. Only a truly horrible player will call your flop raise with 2nd/3rd pair or a draw.

conversely, you can Donk the flop if you have a set, since a lot of guys will play back at you because the Donk is such a weak play. Obviously you are prepared to push here, so if they play back that's what you want, which is why I'll Donk with a super strong hand. The problem with Donking the flop is if you have NOTHING and are in position, you just fold and wait for a better spot. So Donking the flop is the worst of both, you don't win anything if you have a better hand, and you are losing more if you have a worse one!

I have recently started calling the Continuation Bets with the intention of stealing if they check the turn. It is pretty effective. The defense against it is the occasional check-raise when OOP. You have to check-raise your good hands occasionally, so you can check-raise with nothing.

The guys at my home game are really bad about Donk Bets, and after really improving my game in the last 3 mos or so (another level), I punish them when they do that. They don't realize how they are bleeding $.

Most online guys are over aggro and strong pre-flop, and weak-tight post flop. You have to take advantage of this weakness, without throwing away your bankroll by being stupid.

I do appreciate this post, I'm going to use this technique. Normally I raised the flop bet when in position, but when wrong it's too expensive. I know for a fact that Floating the Flop will work at my Home Game, they can't fire the 2nd bullet if they are called when they have nothing. Thanks Ice!

JC

I'm not a big fan of unnecessarily getting involved OOP with air. When ppl donkbet into me OOP 1vs1 on the flop and I have air I usually raise them cause they mostly fold. Sometimes I just fold if I have a read they only do it when they got a hand (like some nits), and sometimes I just call with air/tptk/monster/draw to mix it up.

I dont think the donklead with air is profitable against good players, but if you can find a nit who folds too much then I see no harm in it.

Id like to know who the many many players are who will raise this "donk bet". Ive been doing it for a while and might get raised once in 20 times. They call with a TPTK type hand and almost never raise.

I will regularly. If you Donk into a preflop raiser and he RAISES YOU, NOW WHAT?

it's the cat/mouse game. If they know you will lead with nothing, and they know you know they do, they'll call/raise with nothing, knowing you'll call/raise with nothing, and even lead again lead in rd 2 with nothing again. LOL

I'm no pro, but for me the only way to play back OOP is if you have 2pr min, and you have the uncomfortable position of acting first next round. So I do not Donkbet. But I do punish guys that do it, since most guys can't stand the heat of a raise, and then leading out in rd 2 with air. My Turn bet then takes it down, it doesn't even matter what I have. Or a check on the Turn takes it down on the River, like a S&G.

these are interesting links on this topic. Some guys use it on purpose

http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com/vi ... sc&start=0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_jargon#D

http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/16466

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tips-a ... sen&tip=87



JC

Best thread in a long time...by far.

To GodlikeRoy and JC,

If you go back and read my original pot, I say that :

"Now if you try this against a tricky player (like me) you will get your lunch handed to you, but very few players will bluff raise the flop when you lead into them"

I stand by my statement though that there are very few players who will raise you without a big hand.

I also said :

"Online poker is littered with weak tighties / nits / nut peddlers and set minors right now and they fold all day if you lead into them"

Again, this wont work against a tough tricky player, but in todays mid stakes games, most people are nut peddling trying to just eeek out a small winnings. They are "hudbots" as they say on 2+2. Trying to 8 table 6 max games and they just never learned to play the game correctly.

I do this very, very often. I've had lots of success with it (except one time against Ice--LOL)

I like doing it at PRima because the opponents are weak tightish and fold.

I also like doing it because if you wait to lead into someone when you ONLY have a set, it looks very obvious.

I agree that this not a great line against a good, tricky player. I will say though that even winning players RARELY raise me back there. They might call, but a raise... no.

T

I agree with you Ice, this is a good move vs nits - the thread got a bit sidetracked though on talking about the situation when you were up against a tricky player.