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ATo 10/20 NL on bodog - Live Poker Forums

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ATo 10/20 NL on bodog

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ATo 10/20 NL on bodog

Postby Schuster » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:44 pm

I'm in the cutoff with [Ad] [Ts] and there's a poster directly to my right. Folded to the poster who checks, I make it 80 to go, BB calls, poster folds. I generally would just pass on this hand but poster is pretty bad and likes to defend blinds against me. Pot is 190 to the flop.

Flop is [2c] [3d] [7d]. He checks, I bet 160, he calls. Turn is [8d]. He checks, I check behind. River is [Th]. He bets 300. I do what? Do you do anything different on the turn?

Lee
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Postby Spank_her_Pair » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:35 pm

[5c] [7c]
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Postby Triple B » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:52 pm

I'd play it the same. I snap call this river.
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Postby black_knight6 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:47 pm

Yup, snap call.

Why would you normally pass here? This is 6max right?
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Postby Tyrannic » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:07 pm

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Postby Triple B » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:08 am

To add to my thoughts...IMO this is a classic mistake by BB here when he has a 7, 44, 55, 66 or 99. He "value bets" this river with his marginal hand when in fact, he is bluffing but doesn't realize it.

This is why I call because so many feel obligated to bet here when your range is mostly big cards that have likely missed. They think "wow, my pair is likely good since he checked the turn, I must be ahead so I should bet". Donk thinking IMO. What calls this river bet? A ten probably calls and so does any overpair or better (not that many of these hands are in hero's range). If only a better hand will call, the bet is a bluff.

Obviously this bet could be a set, flush, etc. However, much of the time it is not, and is a terrible mistake. I'd actually rather check-call this river if I held 99 than bet it.
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Postby iceman5 » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:23 am

Standard...Call and win often enough given pot odds youre getting.
iceman5 [As]
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Postby Schuster » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:36 pm

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:24 pm

Haven't read any replies yet, but at first I thought 'insta-call' but after further thought I think it's not so much of one. Say he's a competent player, what can he have? 45 is basically all you beat, other than some random bluff. A5 too I guess. Is he really valuebetting with 79 or 66 here? He must put you on big cards or an overpair, if he bets, you fold your big cards and call with overpairs (or hands like AT, probably 99 and A7 too some of the time - at least that's what he'd think) so I doubt he thinks he's folding out a better hand. That leaves pure bluffs (ie 45) trying to blow you off high cards or a hand that can beat top pair which is valuebetting.

Against donks this does seem like an insta-call as the frequency of him having something like A4 or 57 or A2 goes way up. At these stakes though I think this is closer to a fold than a call.
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Postby Aisthesis » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:23 am

Well, my first reaction is to fold because I always get into trouble when I raise these half-ass hands and then hit it as hard as can be reasonably expected.

However... this looks a lot like a floater to me, and you're indeed ahead of the medium unimproved pairs as well as something like 76.

I still don't object terribly to folding, but I don't object to calling either. In a complete vacuum, it's probably about 0 EV either way. But any read at all could tip the scales one way or the other.

To Godlike: Schuster is playing this hand a LOT (or I should say "exactly") like a missed AK, which still seems to have missed. But there are also obviously a lot of hands to which he's behind.
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Postby kennyg » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:19 am

"I'll take KennyGs advice before Sklanskys every time. "
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Postby Zeestein » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:26 am

Just to be contrary - how come no one is saying raise/shove as an option? I think a flush on his end is super unlikely on his end given how we got there.

I'm not sure what the opponent could be v-betting here that you beat, but there's a ton of hands that probably feels compelled to bluff the river, esp HU and we've OMGTOPTOP.
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Postby emmasdad » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:25 am

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Postby black_knight6 » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:53 am

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