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So I just got Caiffone's book....Question - Live Poker Forums

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So I just got Caiffone's book....Question

Postby Pok 7's » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:53 pm

I was skimming through it and noticed a hand from the "Should you learn Omaha section".

This particular hand is something that I wonder about it being played. The hand in question is: You hold [Jh] [Jc] [4d] [3d] on a [Js] [9s] [2h] board.

Is this a situation where you're going to go broke on a hand no matter what, or should this be played cautiously? It's being compared to our opponent holding [Qs] [Qh] [Ts] [8h]
and we'd actually be a 7:5 dog here. (these are things I also need to understand & recognize more in this game to be honest....Any pointers/tips/links appreciated as far as common situations that might arise as far as our odds go).

Maybe it't just because I'm still new but is there a "best" strategy here? Are we better off waiting till the turn before we hammer the pot with only 1 to come? Or is this just a standard situation where you'd likely get all in and hang on for the ride?
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Postby pokerzen » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:55 pm

Top set is generally a very strong hand ... for the number of times you run into a hand like villain's ... bah ... it's best to play it as strong as possible and not worry about monsters in the closet. If villain calls a psb on the flop and the board pairs ... you check.

Checking the flop here is bad IMO cause giving a free card to that hand is baaaad. If the board gets scary on the turn you can get away from the hand easy. If villain puts us all-in on the flop I'd still go for it.

Villain's pretty much got the best possible drawing hand against our made hand ... and even with that the odds are still decent even though skewed out of our favour. Take villain's range down a bit and we're the favorite most times.
<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Postby pokerzen » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:11 pm

Here's a similar situation that came up shortly after my last post. Some players would argue with my play here but I'm comfortable that I did the right thing. If villain was going to outdraw me he was going to need to put his entire stack at risk to do so.

There are times when you will run into an enormous drawing hand that has you -EV on that particular hand ... but in the long run betting like this says "I bet that you DON'T have that enormous drawing hand ... and even if you do I'm still pretty comfortable with what I got ... I'll take down this pot a lot of the time even if you do."

I'm happier with top set on the flop than I am with a made straight.

** Game ID 1332406509 starting - 2007-04-18 15:03:57
** Flavius [Omaha] (0.10|0.20 Pot Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- pokersyco sitting in seat 1 with $24.85
- pokerzen sitting in seat 2 with $21.10 [Dealer]
- WinningDude sitting in seat 3 with $25.05
- lemmy78 sitting in seat 4 with $3.30
- arsunda sitting in seat 5 with $30.40
- GORAMAN sitting in seat 6 with $17.25

WinningDude posted the small blind - $0.10
lemmy78 posted the big blind - $0.20
** Dealing card to pokerzen: [8c] [8s] [4d] [4h]
arsunda called - $0.20
GORAMAN called - $0.20
pokersyco called - $0.20
pokerzen called - $0.20
WinningDude raised - $0.75
lemmy78 called - $0.75
arsunda called - $0.75
GORAMAN called - $0.75
pokersyco called - $0.75
pokerzen called - $0.75

** Dealing the flop: [7d] [8h] [2d]
WinningDude checked
lemmy78 went all-in - $2.75
arsunda called - $2.75
GORAMAN folded
pokersyco called - $2.75
pokerzen raised - $18.25
WinningDude folded
arsunda folded
pokersyco folded

** Dealing the turn: [3d]

** Dealing the river: [Kc]
lemmy78 shows: [6h] [Ac] [As] [Js]
pokerzen shows: 8 of Clubs, 8 of Spades, 4 of Diamonds, 4 of Hearts
pokerzen wins $15.20 from the main pot

End of game 1332406509
<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Postby Pok 7's » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:19 pm

Just as a totally non related, semi-hijack post..... I'm surprised that a game like PLO, with such a large number of variables and situations involved in the game. That it seems to have very little as far as reading material goes. I must have a least a half dozen Hold Em books that are a few 100 pages each.

This book is only about 120 pages, I also got "How good is your PLO" along with it....Which again is a small book. Although I have "How good is your LHE" which while a small book is very good. I'm hoping this will be the same. Aside from that Rolf's book seems to about the only other main book on the game.
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Postby pokerzen » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:25 pm

I think that may be part of the reason why it can be really profitable ... there's not a lot of strategy info for the average poker player ... so the game goes to those of us that study it hard and learn what to do in most situations.

I really enjoyed the PLO section in Super/System2. I haven't read any other books ... I'd be interested to know your take on their value.
<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Location: I'm from Canada, eh.

Postby Pok 7's » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:33 pm

I'll let you know, I also read the section of SSII as well.

Getting back to your hand Zen, in that scenario had we been up against a hand like 9Txx with 2 diamonds we'd actually be a dog in that hand correct? Not that I think it's one I'm getting away from, but just trying to learn if I did get outdrawn (for my own sanity) against a hand like that, it should be expected since their draw is actually stronger than our hand.
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Location: ...Halfway between card dead and missing flops

Postby pokerzen » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:42 pm

<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Location: I'm from Canada, eh.

Postby Ojingo » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:47 pm

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Postby Aisthesis » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:47 am

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Postby Aisthesis » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:34 am

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