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Is it ever correct to slow play? $25 PLO 6 max - Live Poker Forums

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Is it ever correct to slow play? $25 PLO 6 max

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Is it ever correct to slow play? $25 PLO 6 max

Postby Pok 7's » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:42 pm

Just curious... Slowplaying in PLO is generally a no-no...I've seen that stressed often enough. Is there any exceptions to this rule? I was wondering if it should be done in this spot? I was in this situation twice tonight, both times I held a suited A raised PF and floped a flush. I'll post the other one below too just so you can see the action on the hand. Not something I would normally raise PF but I'm working on raising more PF especially in LPsince I'm a 6 max nit anyway.

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.25 BB (6 handed) from (Format: Bet The Pot)

UTG ($5)
MP ($16.60)
CO ($4.65)
Button ($10.40)
Hero ($39.45)
BB ($19.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with [3d], [Ah], [6h], [Ad]. UTG posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG (poster) checks, MP calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, UTG folds, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3.50) [7h], [5h], [Kh] (4 players)
Hero bets $3.35, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: $6.85

Results in white below:
No showdown. Hero wins $6.85.


Here's the other one:

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.25 BB (6 handed) from (Format: Bet The Pot)

SB ($45.55)
BB ($23.45)
UTG ($3.40)
MP ($14.45)
Hero ($24.55)
Button ($14)

Preflop: Hero is CO with [Ad], [2c], [Js], [Qd].
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.75, SB calls $0.65, BB calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4.50) [Kd], [6d], [9d] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets $0.5, Hero raises to $5.8, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $5.80, UTG calls $2.65 (All-In), MP folds.

Turn: ($19.25) [Jd] (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero bets $18 (All-In), BB folds.

River: ($37.25) [2h] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $37.25

Results in white below:

UTG mucked [6c 6h 8h Ac]
Outcome: Hero wins $37.25.
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Postby pokerzen » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:06 pm

<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Postby Spank_her_Pair » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:26 am

hands seem fine. I rarely slowplay when nobody has bet. In other words if someone bets the flop and I have a real strong hand; I might just call. But rarely would i Check a flop in position that has not been bet. (unless it is HU on the flop, then maybe)

Hand #2 i dont like the preflop raise. This is a fairly weak hand because of the [2c] that gives no value. You dont want to play 3card hands.
[5c] [7c]
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Postby Pok 7's » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:34 am

Last edited by Pok 7's on Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ojingo » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:40 am

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Postby Pok 7's » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:46 am

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Postby Ojingo » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:07 am

If what you consider thinking players display that kind of behaviour (calling your flop bets a lot) then you can:

- either fire some more second barrels: many players will slow down on the turn and have declining aggression throughout the hand when they have a medium strong holding. If I notice that someone often bets hands like TP+small draw, or weak two pair on the flop but slows down on the turn then I will start floating.
Why do they fold to the CBets of the lagtard? Because they know he will fire again on the turn and they will have to play a huge pot to get to showdown, and they are not willing to do that without a great hand. Why don't they fold to yours? Because they know you will give them a cheap showdown (or a chance to steal the pot) if YOU don't have a great hand, and you will tell them on the turn whether you have it or not! (Not saying this is necessarily what happens, but a possibility to be aware of.)

- against weaker opponents, fire a bit less on the flop, especially OOP; keep firing every now and then in small pots to keep the impression alive that you often bet with air, but get value from your strong hands by betting them straightforwardly as you did in the hands.
Also make sure you mix betting and checkraising enough.
All this assumes that you're dealing with rational opponents though. Often these things can be sheer coincidence; maybe your opponent is simply catching pieces of the flop a few times in a row.
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Postby Pok 7's » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:35 am

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Postby Ojingo » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:08 am

To address your last question first: 10k hands is really not much. Since you're starting out with the game it is to be expected that you have leaks and that you play suboptimally (well, everyone does, but it should improve over time). You should really look at the hands where your whole stack went in. Every hand where you either doubled up or stacked off. See if you made the correct decision or not. This should be your no. 1 test.
If you have PTO, then you should also look at how much you win on certain type of hands and how much you win/lose by position.

It is quite common to have sessions where you feel you don't have any control over the game, none of your moves work out, you finally flop something and everyone instantly folds, etc. It can be very hard to determine to which extent this is due to you not catching at the right times and to which extent it is your play. In a session like that you should adapt a bit, but you shouldn't become gunshy, or take on wild gambles to turn things around. If you're in the middle of such a session and you don't see huge donators at the table I suggest you just leave the game and go over your session.

One more thing (I'll address the other points later, I'm off to a conference for the weekend): the shorter the table, the more these phenomena get aggrevated. I sometimes play SH for hours without picking up a decent pot, only to win a 3way allin pot at the end of the session. It's the nature of the game, especially if you play a TAG game (as you should). If you're uncertain about certain fundamentals, I really recommend playing FR for a while, since you don't have to worry about game dynamics as much.

More after the weekend!
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Postby DaFish » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:38 am

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Postby Pok 7's » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:24 am

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Postby pokerzen » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:50 pm

<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:41 am

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby Pok 7's » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:09 am

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