FTP 200NL

I have K[c] J[c] in MP. 3 to flop.

Flop is 8[c] 7[c] 5[c]. SB leads quickly and full pot. He is a 25/17 guy and is fully stacked. A full stack guy calls in BB.

I raise of course to 25 and SB thinks and calls. BB now calls.


Turn 8[h]. They both check.

Here's the problem. If I bet, I can't fold even if they push now or if the board brings the 4th club.

Who bets here? If so, gotta shove it?

This is why you need to raise these hands preflop, to narrow their hand ranges. They could either literally have any combination of two pair, sets, straights, flushes, flush draws, or paird + straight / flush draws.

You probably have to bet and call a shove here, as they could be shoving with 8x or a lower flush or a straight or something like 78 too. It's probably high variance but you have to do it. Checking really really really sucks because so many cards either kill your action or give you the worst hand. Especially vs 2 opponents.

i agree w/ bet out + call shove.

For every hand like this where you say its better to raise this hand, I can show you one where you wouldve made more money by limping. We could argue that all day long.

In fact if one of these guys has something like [8d], they would folded preflop to a raise but they are about to get crushed in this scenario.

actually 22/17. it sounds silly but there's a big difference between a 22/17 and a 25/17.

I limp KJs and raise KJs from opening in MP depending on many things. I think if you have been there a bit and the view you as a TAG, and lets assume they are idiots and can't tell if you are a TAG or not but have a big stack, raising is the way to go.

Not trying to lure you into the world of LAGing it up but I think accepting some variance on winnings is the healthiest approach. Some people call it switching gears, we all need a high gear too.