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No you don't.

Postby WayToGo » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:35 am

On the flop i was thinking about what in the world he would raise the flop with that can call my bluff on a later street
.
Opponent is 24/17, he's a TAGGY regular, street aggression factor (5/4/2) and knows my style 21/18.
I raise the button and he defends BB. Then:



saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($279.35)
UTG ($183.75)
MP ($221.65)
Hero ($230.30)
SB ($207.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with [Qh], [Jh].
2 folds, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($17) [As], [2d], [2h] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $11, BB raises to $30, Hero calls $19.

I'm raising the button so he's putting me on a very wide range with not a majority of aces in it. I think he raises all kind of hands on this flop???

Next to that my flop bet is pretty weak inviting to get whooped. I bet this amount for a couple of reasons.

Turn: ($77) [3s] (2 players)
BB bets $50, Hero calls $50.

NOTE: He thought like 5 seconds before betting.

River: ($177) [Kc] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero calls $230.30 (All-In)



Spewy?
Taking shots, one at a time.
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Postby Zmej » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:40 am

Sorry but it is just bad, calling 2 barrels with no pair no draw and bluffing the river, when any Ax will call you. (Board is paired, K kicker for everyone but AK.)

Don't CB if you expect to be played back lightly, or fold to CR on flop and move to the next hand.

Edit: The hand you choose to play back is also very strange, you don't have any outs. Suppose the flop was [Ah] [5h] [6s] and you did the same thing with your [Qh] [Jh], it would be much better, especially if you bluffed on the river only when 9, 4 and may be 6 comes.
"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby Xaston » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:35 am

Boy, you got me confused with a man who repeats himself.
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Postby T-Rod » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:07 pm

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:33 pm

Flop is okay, turn is bad, river is worse.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby dropthe72 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:01 pm

“Immaturity is the incapacity to use one's intelligence without the guidance of another.” - broseph manny
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Postby kokomo44 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:35 pm

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:06 pm

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby kokomo44 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:54 pm

Good ones. the villan runs at a vpip of 24, he is not getting out of line to much and he is not C raising and leading turn to often with air.

i still think hands like this should be played against more fishy players with atleast a pair or draw.


[/quote]
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:00 pm

Anything with a 2 in it is basically always a fold preflop, hands like AK/AQ/AJ are almost always 3bet preflop by a 24/20 in the blinds vs a button or co open from a good player.

Just because his vpip is 24 doesn't mean he doesn't bluff, it just means he plays less hands than someone who is 30/x/x.

The fact that his stats are 24/20 help us narrow his range so we know that he can't really have a hand that will stack off in this situation 90% of the time.

Generally I don't try to hand read and bluff fishy players as they are more liable to play a hand unorthodoxly and can show up with something like 52s here. Against ABC TAGs playing 8 tables it's rare that they're mixing up their game a lot and are therefore a lot more exploitable.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby kokomo44 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:27 pm

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:58 pm

So you agree that a TAGGY player isn't going to show up with 2x or AJ+, would you also agree that a taggy player isn't going to lose their stack with A5 or something on this flop/turn?

I don't think many TAGs would CR this flop with an ace anyway, a check-call line seems better.

He doesn't have to be running only bluffs - he can easily have a better hand but we can make him lay it down because we know that most of the time he doesn't have a hand that he can stack off with - when we can easily represent AQ+.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby kokomo44 » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:34 am

Hands you beat.
missed suited connectors

Hands you loose to.
PP's 22 33 kk aa for monsters. KQ Ax an unlikely 2 in a sc.

Your Q High actually has show down value against SC's bluffs.

and you have 0 chance to get him off a FH or any A. this move will only work if he has a PP.

you should check behind.
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Postby WayToGo » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:49 pm

Taking shots, one at a time.
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Postby WayToGo » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:50 pm

Taking shots, one at a time.
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