$400nl on stars. I think i'm still the only one in the world playing full ring.

UTG is running about 30/20/2.5. very aggro preflop, likes to both raise and reraise, especially in position. he's run his stack up to about 1200 before i sat down. I ran mine up to 1200 over the course of 2 hours.

His post flop play seems decent. He seems to calm down a bit on the wild aggression, and it seems slightly more controlled, though he's still probably the most aggressive player at the table. These 2 hours i've sat with him at 4 or 5 tables are the extent of my history with him.

He opens to 16 UTG and gets called by a player in MP. I call in the CO with [4c]. everyone else folds.

3-handed. $51 pot. flop comes [As][4d]. Villain leads out for $40. MP folds, I raise to $100. He reraises to $225.

I assume at this point that we can all assume he has an ace. I guess maybe an outside shot at [2d]/[5d][3d], but i haven't really seen him going wild with flush draws, especially not on paired boards. either that or he thinks he's trying to rebluff me with something like TT.

At this point, what's the best play? Bear in mind that we're both starting the hand just over 300 BB's ($1200 a piece).
Do you:
A - smooth call, trying to represent a flush draw, and hoping he leads out on any non-diamond turn, looking to get it in there barring some sort of scary paint.
B - flat jam the flop. this push would be ~$950ish more to him (too lazy to look up exact #'s).
C - make a smaller reraise, maybe in the realm realm of $400?



And, just to make this hand a little more fun, lets assume that you're the villain. What's your reaction to whatever decision you've made for me assuming you're holding an ace? TO make it tougher, lets assume you hold AK in this spot.

Also, whatever your decision for me is, what other hands would you play the same way? if you say you're flat jamming the flop, are you doing that with AK as well here?

You're too deep to piss around...reraise to 425. If he has AQ/AK he'll likely shove. If you just call the flop, you set yourself up to make a HUUUUGE mistake if he fills up and you guys stick it in...and a diamond would really really suck for your action...and if you reraise and you guys stick it in, you're letting HIM make the mistake.

Odds are he has a big ace and you're not scaring him off...reraise.

Stel, I'd also be interested in your opinion (and that of others) regarding the flop action prior to the move you're really asking about.

Normally, I'd probably raise to about 150 here. But that probably actually elicits a simple call from AK. If he has a weird A (something like A8, etc., has huge implied odds in this situation, although he's only drawing to 3 outs vs. AK and 4 vs. your hand), while he should objectively lay down, he might try to see a turn for 3 outs to stack you (even if he does, he's not quite break-even, though).

And maybe I'm somewhat obsessed at the moment with these weird all-ins, but the data so far at the 1/2 indicates that you do get a really horrible call from normal stacks. So, another option I find quite interesting: He bets 40, and you slam if for the full 1,200. This move is so bizarre that I think AK may actually call here. He shouldn't, but it really looks like you're trying to buy a split... Of course, it's definitely a bad play if you only get called by A4 and AA.

$400 to $450 looks good, and shove any turn. I think $450 is a little better because it makes the turn shove well under full pot.

after discussing this with stelv last night im leaning more towards the flat push. i think that the push just screams to someone holding a big A (presumably AK) that 'WE'RE CHOPPING!!!!!!!"

also that making a smallish raise also screams to tem "I'M UBBER STRONG"

I haven't had many opportunities to pull the overbet shove even full-stacked, but I will say this: It appears to me (possibly coincidental, as the data is too sparse) that it slows these guys WAY down with steals and frivolous raises.

I was kind of surprized last night at the immediate change in mood after I shoved a set on a draw board. Several of these chronic stealers started raising maybe at 1/3 their normal rate.

Anyhow, I haven't had the opportunity to do it at all triple-stacked, but I do think it can often have some major meta-game value. They get very cautious at playing back at you in almost all circumstances, and I'm convinced it's because they fear you may push out of the blue, and they won't know what to do.

Yet another option to the first $40 bet: First, I'll just assume he doesn't have A4 or AA, but some big A, probably AK, but you never know. That means he has 4 outs with 43 cards left, hence is 10:1 to be behind on the turn. So, let's say he stacks you every time he hits his kicker (and he can probably do it if the kicker isn't a K). Then he wins 1200. That means it's a bad call even for 120 (actually, a good deal more given what's in the pot). However, you need to pick up at least 160 total to make it profitable to wait for a set on 44.

Anyhow, if he bets 40 and you make it 300 immediately, I think he certainly calls and may push with AK. Then you're already in deep enough that you can just push the turn come what may. I suppose you have to make an exception for a K turn here, but I don't see how he can POSSIBLY call 300 with AQ (although AQ vs. AK has the presumed 3 fours as additional outs, hence 3 to win and another 3 to split). He can't make that call even if he knows you'll stack off if he hits.

So, basically, as initial bet, I think 300 is enough to narrow it down to AK or better. Then I supposed you can actually lay down to a K on the turn, but anything else you push.

I smooth call one time and try to get it all in on the turn. There is only a 18% chance that a diamond hits even if it does there is always the chance that he has A , and is still going to be willing to put money in. The overpush screams 44 unless you have a maniac table image. I always have trouble putting someone on the case card. You have position take advantage of it. There is $500 in the pot, if you smooth call and he thinks you are on a draw he is going to have to bet $300-$500 to try to "push you off your draw". Either bet pretty much pot commits him to call with a big ace with 2/3 of his stack already in the pot. I just don't see "protecting" a full house in position against someone you know has trips. This is also a really nice time to levitate the case 4 to the top of the deck make quads against his boat.

I dont think anyone who is willing to fold AK there should be reraising the flop with AK.

In heros position I would flat call and get all in on any turn. He is either bluffing and isnt going to put another cent in no matter what you do or he has a big ace and is going to shovel money in on any turn.

The only real difference I see is that he might have a flush draw and you will bust him if it hits the turn and he will probably fold it if you shove the flop.

hmm. quite a difference of oppinions on this hand.

I opted to flat jam, thinking both that I wanted to get the money in before he could either boat up or get scared of a flush card showing up.

he tanked for almost a minute before calling with AQ, missed his outs, and i dragged a $2400 pot.

I think at this point I didn't want to make a mistake and lose a 3 buyin stack by allowing him to outdraw me, so you could say the shove was partly out of fear. I'd say my second biggest concern was allowing a flush card to hit, which i was worried could negate any more action (barring him having the .



More than that though, this hand got me to thinking about hand values when you're HU. Obviously a boat is stronger than trips, but if you were in my position, and had AK here instead of 44, I'm curious if you would play the hand differently. THe more i think about it, the more I realize that AK is essentially a stronger hand here. If he has anything but A4 and 44 when we hold AK in this spot, we have a much smaller chance of losing the pot than we do with 44. Of course, the chance of splitting is huge, but that makes me think that if i held AK here, i'd be strongly considering jamming this spot also.