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Calling all players -- request for CB information - Live Poker Forums

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Calling all players -- request for CB information

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Calling all players -- request for CB information

Postby k3nt » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:18 pm

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Postby Zuccala » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:29 pm

Heads up I CB everytime pretty much. I may mix it up if i have a monster or am against a VERY AGGRESSIVE opponent. Say I have AhKh and flop is [2h][6s][9h] I may try for a C/R against an agressive opponent.

If I am OOP and against 2-3 players and miss I will just check. Even if I am against 2 opponets that are fairly passive I may check if the board is something with all cards in the "playing zone".

I mean I may mix it up sparingly OOP when I missed. But I like to bet alot more flops in position.
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Postby RedBarracuda » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:51 pm

I didn't CB because I was stealing and thought that flop could have hit one of the callers and decided to go for a delayed CB if they check the turn.. it worked because a good scare card came I imagine.. I'd fold to any aggression obv..

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at

Profiles and Stacks:
UTG ($214.65) 20.7/12.1/2.3 (58)
CO ($394.12) 21.7/8.9/8.5 (157)
Hero ($344.95) 17.2/15.9/2.3 (157)
SB ($356.64) 39.7/17.3/2.9 (156)
BB ($238.81) 24.5/15.3/1.8 (163)

Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is BTN [9d][Qh]
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, SB calls $6, BB calls $5
Flop: [7h][Kh][Ac] ($21, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: [3h] ($21, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $14, SB folds, BB folds

Same thing basically... I bet because they checked the turn again to try and take it down.. I think I thought that the loose guy will bet if he has something on turn cause he can call with any2 there.. I wasnt overly concerned with SB TBH..
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at

Profiles and Stacks:
CO ($298.17) 36.9/18.0/5.9 (206)
Hero ($203.77) 18.2/16.7/5.6 (330)
SB ($188.20) 29.2/18.1/1.7 (1152)
BB ($62.35) 53.6/9.8/0.8 (819)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 4 players) Hero is BTN [Ad][Kh]
1 fold, Hero raises to $4, SB calls $3.5, BB calls $3
Flop: [9s][4h][4d] ($12, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: [5s] ($12, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $7.5, SB folds, BB calls $7.5
River: [9c] ($27, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Final Pot: $27
BB shows: [Ts][7s]
Hero shows: [Ad][Kh]

Maybe both flops are really good for a CB but in these two hands I decided to go for a delayed CB..

Also, today I lost money when I raised PF and checked the flop overall..

Now for HU (where I lost every single pot that I didn't CB):
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at

Profiles and Stacks:
UTG ($198.00) 21.7/8.9/8.5 (157)
Hero ($382.95) 17.2/15.9/2.3 (157)
BTN ($545.21) 39.7/17.3/2.9 (156)
SB ($267.01) 24.5/15.3/1.8 (163)
BB ($219.20) 17.3/13.3/6.5 (196)

Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is CO [Kh][Ad]
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, SB calls $7, 1 fold
Flop: [Jd][5c][5s] ($18, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks
Turn: [Ts] ($18, 2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero calls $16
River: [3h] ($50, 2 players)
SB bets $45, Hero folds

Again, I should have probably CB this flop as well, but wanted to go for delayed CB and when he fired I called to see what's going on and his river bet I had to fold.. It turned out basically the same as me firing, him calling and then me checking and him firing and then me folding..I think I gave myself a cheaper chance to improve and when that didn't work I folded..

From what I've heard and read also...
It depends a lot if you're in position or OOP and if it's HU or multiway.. It's tougher to CB when you're OOP if you're facing a solid TAG because then the wetter the board the more likelihood you will get floated and when you check turn you are most likely to fold to villains bet..

In position you might check behind if you think villains range (ie. he calls with small pocket pairs) hit the flop and you have a hand that can improve significantly so instead of CBetting and getting C/R which you probably can't call you just check behind and hope to fill up... say on 256 flop and you have 78 or 89.. there's a big likelihood that this villain has a set or an overpair to the flop or even just a better hand then you.. so he checks (probably with intention of CRing) and you check behind to fill up... and turn is miraculous 9 or seven and now villain leads with his set and you raise him and he shoves and you are very happy about it..

I hope I wasn't too much off in my post and that "senior" posters won't bash me too much for it :D
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Postby Semillon » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:56 pm

I raise AKo OTB, slightly loose player calls from the SB.

Flop: [Js][Td][6c]

SB checks, I check.

That flop smacked his calling range so hard its not funny, he loves suited connectors and hands like QJ etc.

A flop where you have a small number of outs to a monster hand, plus some bonus ones to a solid hand is a good one to take a free card.
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Postby Semillon » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:00 pm

I raise AQo from the CO, BB calls.

Flop [Tc][4s][4h]

Check/check on the flop.

Reason: Any pocket pair will call that flop, as will any 4 or T obv, generally everything else folds, so there is really no reason to bet, I will call at least one street with A high as the hand progresses.
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Postby Cooper » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:11 pm

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Re: Calling all players -- request for CB information

Postby Notorious_JC » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:45 pm

History: I had been putting a Position Tax on guys for an hour, and I could tell they were getting tired of it. Villain was to my right, and he was getting especially tired of my antics. The flop was ideal in a BOB battle, so I checked the flop hoping he's get something moderate to play back with. Even though the turn was a blank, I had to get some $ in the pot. I knew he knew that turn didn't help, so I knew he would call (I had been doing the delayed CB several times over the last hour, nobody had played back yet). The Q was perfect since the villain had one. I probably should have shoved, but was pretty sure he would have folded to that. I also figured I'd have fold equity for another 30 minutes if I showed a good hand here. I should have shoved and expected a call, mistake on my part! Oh well.

JC


$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
7 players
Converted at

Stacks:
UTG ($140.20)
UTG 1 ($193.20)
MP ($104.25)
CO ($138.25)
BTN ($97.00)
SB ($147.45)
Hero ($117.55)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 7 players) Hero is BB [Jc][As]
5 folds, SB calls $0.5, Hero raises to $3, SB calls $2

Flop: [Jd][7c][Js] ($6, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: [5c] ($6, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB raises to $13, Hero calls $8

River: [Qh] ($32, 2 players)
SB bets $6, Hero raises to $20, SB raises to $42, Hero calls $22

Final Pot: $116
SB shows: [3s][Qs]
Hero shows: [Jc][As]

Hero wins $113 ( won $55 )
SB lost -$58.00
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Postby Jossnaz » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:16 pm

a player who made several great poker videos said in one of his videos that to CB pretty much always is a huge leak, and I agree. It's easy to exploit players cont. betting 80%+

We had this discussion here already, and people argued with me that CB less than 90% is a leak... but I think a CB rate above 75% is a leak, less might be even better. When the flop comes 447, 562 or any other bad low flop I think a check is fine. Look at it how villain sees you playing: you have a tight range and raise a lot high hands, AT+, 9T+... so when there's a low flop, chances are very small it has hit you... when chances are small that it hit you, why would you bluff that spot a lot? On the other hand flops with a high card hit your range pretty strongly, so you can bet those with nothing as villain is much more likely to believe you.

Second thing is, is how connected the flop is. The more it is connected, the higher the chances that villain has a made hand. He might have a draw but the bigger problem are made hands.
Players rarely call with K3, K6 etc So when the flop is connected one should consider that too.

[Edit] this concerns 6max... i have no understanding of FR
Last edited by Jossnaz on Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RedBarracuda » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:33 pm

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(6:36:48 PM) hard2tel45s: well u were in the crazy bin bro
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Postby Jossnaz » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:01 pm

Last edited by Jossnaz on Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Notorious_JC » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:37 pm

I discussed this in Ice's thread last week on floaters. If you CB 80+%, the villain should know you are lying 2/3 of the time. If they are a tighter player than you are, you are spewing if they play back every time they hit, and 1/2 the time they don't (especially IP). I think CBing that much is spew, and you can call them down pretty light if you hit, since they only really have something 1/2 the time (and that's being generous).

I'm sure one of our better individuals will quickly crunch the #s and come up with some guidelines a little better than generalities.

OBVIOUSLY, if a 12/8/1 guy CBs, I'm not floating or playing back on him without the goods, but if he's 30/20/3 is firing, the 2nd guy is CBing light, assuming both CB 80%.

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Postby DoctorHandles » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:34 am

The better player should win the race. Always.
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Postby Semillon » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:06 am

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Postby Cooper » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:12 am

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Postby DoctorHandles » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:22 am

The better player should win the race. Always.
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