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6max hand selection - Live Poker Forums

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6max hand selection

Hand analysis. Post your trouble hands here

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Postby Aisthesis » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:00 am

Wow, this has generated a lot of commentary.

I really agree with just about everything excession said and have some major problems with hard2tel's critique.

On the set-mining with 22-66, I don't think that's necessary, but I'm almost never getting in very deep with those hands unless I have set or straight draw.

Also, this whole cb philosophy I think is quite different 6max than FR. Consistently CBing and 2 barreling is quite dangerous actually with no piece. I recently suggested ice go a little higher than 60% but am myself having trouble getting above 50% without feeling like I'm getting in serious trouble. What is no doubt true is that vs. fairly nitty players, you'll take down the flop pot a small majority of the time, but when you don't, you lose more than your CB here unless you can show them a hand or get them to fold later.

At least for me, I'll almost always raise QJo 6max, but I'm not CBing it even HU unless I have some piece of the flop (ok, maybe once in a great while with a read).
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Postby Aisthesis » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:46 am

Ok, first a general hypothesis:

The REASON why one normally raises any playable hand 6max is that the blind pressure is noticeable. You have a superior hand relative just to the average of the blind, so you're playing ultimate just to split up a piece of SB and BB with whoever at the table may have a hand.

The reasons why one is much more cautious with raises at FR are that the blind pressure is less and, more importantly, the risk is much greater that someone at the table may have a truly big hand. Hence, KJo is quite dubious to a raise, since there's a very high probability that someone has KQ or AJ or better.

It also seems to me like the general consensus is that you need a reason to limp rather than raise. I'm down with that view.

The specific hands that seem most contentious are the small PPs. I think there are several pros and cons here to the extent that one can do it either way. Here's my attempt:

For raising: There's less room to maneuver after the flop, hence, if you do set, there's less ability for your opponents to get away from their hands. Moreover, if the board is kind of raggedy, they may try to take it away from you because they think the flop didn't hit you. And your opponents are likely forced to hit if you've thinned the field. Moreover, if you miss a hand like 66 now may have some difficulty proceeding if you CB into a board with some likely big cards.

For limping: It's much more difficult to get re-raised off the hand, and you keep the pot manageable in case you do want to fire without setting. Also, if you limp it UTG, you typically allow more players in the hand. Then if LP raises, you've increased the amount in the pot whether subsequent limpers fold or not.

I really don't see either set of arguments as decisive. With a hand like 33, what you'd really like in any case (my opinion) is either a HU pot where you have a good shot at taking it down on the flop despite a miss, OR as multi-way as possible still with a small raise in. Undesirable is really something like a 3-way pot vs. weakish hands at a high PF price.

I think my reason for often choosing to limp is that I prefer the multi-way situation on these hands. True, HU (if you can get it there) your CB is more likely to work, but it's probably not much better than break-even (if that) by the time you figure in the extra cost for the times it doesn't work.
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Postby iceman5 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:40 am

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:49 am

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:55 am

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby iceman5 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:08 am

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Postby excession » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:30 am

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Postby hard2tel » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:48 am

"But meh, what I lack for in talent and intelligence I make up for in lack of ambition." -- Oatmealforxmas

- make more than xaston and roy
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Postby hard2tel » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:05 am

"But meh, what I lack for in talent and intelligence I make up for in lack of ambition." -- Oatmealforxmas

- make more than xaston and roy
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Postby iceman5 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:18 am

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Postby Stoneburg » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:57 am

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Postby Stoneburg » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:03 am

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Postby Triple B » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:35 am

I play 5-max mostly, so I will use only UTG at 6-max and UTG+1 at 6-max/UTG 5-max, so my UTG stats are pretty limited.

UTG:
22...11 times, +$12, +0.14 BB/hand
33...13 times, -$150, -1.45 BB/hand
44...17 times, +$1205, +4.53 BB/hand
55...16 times, -$170, +0.10 BB/hand
66...17 times, +175, +0.12 BB/hand

UTG+1/UTG @ 5-max:
22...62 times, -$295, -0.26 BB/hand
33...72 times, +$800, +1.45 BB/hand
44...53 times, +$550, +1.34 BB/hand
55...64 times, +$35, +0.18 BB/hand
66...69 times, +$565, +1.17 BB/hand

edit: I open raise small pairs 100% of the time, UTG+1 I would call a raise and may occasionally limp behind a shorter stacks UTG limp.

Ice,

OK...I understand what you are saying. You are going to play aggressively OOP with your 33 unimproved, by C/Ring flops that probably missed villain. Personally I think that's not great, since once you are called you are in a worse position than you can possibly get yourself into by raising preflop and you have no equity. If it works for you, that's great...I can't argue with your results. You are obviously a good winning player.
Last edited by Triple B on Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby excession » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:04 am

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Postby iceman5 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:33 am

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