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More 3betting stuff...

Postby MVPSPORTS » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:53 pm

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Postby Semillon » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:37 pm

I think this lost a bit of context?

Anyhow from a pure math perspective the size of the raise doesn't matter, its all relative to effective stacks.

Some players 3bet large with AA/KK and small with everything else, so then its just a read on an individual and you cannot generalise.
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Postby Aisthesis » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:19 pm

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Postby excession » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:09 pm

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Postby Aisthesis » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:26 pm

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Postby shamdonk » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:44 pm

Be glad your opponents refuse to fold; if they didn't, you just might go broke.


(9:00:09 PM) GodlikeRoy: i think you could prolly post total shit for the next 2 years aaaaand like 192 days and you'll still be considered 'posting good' cause of your threads that'll never be seen thread
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:54 pm

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Postby Aisthesis » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:58 am

I think it's very game-specific. The question is whether there's a lot of 3-betting. I've run into several players at the 100s where I think AK is a push if you get re-raised (don't have a sufficient read with regard to betting quantities).

At the 50s on Stars (admittedly insufficient sample size as of yet), I've never seen the $10 3-bet on anything but QQ+. As long as that read holds, I'm folding it.

With the more passive re-raise, I think I'm calling for the moment--although with a read that it's a loose 3-bettor, I think you can just push it.

There's apparently some sort of 2+2 discussion about frequent 3-betting. My impression is that it hasn't made it down to the 50 level but that some at the 100s are familiar with it. In any case, vs. a potentially light re-raiser, I do think AK is a push with full stacks. Vs. a tight re-raiser and a big re-raise, I don't see the point of continuing with the hand.

So, specifically to sham: I agree completely that against players who 3-bet a lot, AK isn't a fold. But the hypothesis is that for a specific game, there just aren't a lot of big re-raises, and when the exception occurs, you should believe it (as several of my lost stacks clearly illustrate) rather than assuming they're making a play--at least pending evidence to the contrary.
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:47 am

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby Aisthesis » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:55 pm

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Postby Jossnaz » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:31 pm

.might be off topic
but dont forget card removal

if you hold AK there's only 3 AA and 3 KK combos but there's 6 QQ. So if villain is only calling a shove with KK+ and is 3betting with JJ+, AK (which is a very tight range) and you have AK and action was lets say

you bet 5 bb
vill raises to 15 bb (this could be JJ+, AK right)
you shove

you can always shove and be winning because the 6 combos that beat you, 3KK, 3 AA, are much more unlikely than JJ, AK, QQ which he folds and thus take the money home.

i'll look into the maths maybe...
Always bet on duke
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Postby Triple B » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:49 pm

Villain: Why?
Villain: How?
Me: I had a feeling
Villian: Sit in you cretin
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Postby Aisthesis » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:01 pm

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Postby Triple B » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:16 pm

Villain: Why?
Villain: How?
Me: I had a feeling
Villian: Sit in you cretin
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