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Postby redhouse » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:07 pm

Mekos King: existence without running good
Mekos King: truly has no purpose
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Postby DoctorHandles » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:10 pm

The better player should win the race. Always.
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Postby black_knight6 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:56 pm

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Postby redhouse » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:38 pm

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Mekos King: truly has no purpose
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Postby black_knight6 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:06 pm

If you have questions that I can actually answer, I'll answer them :)

Let's just say that sometimes, I will choose to call with certain hands to outplay them postflop (or trap with stuff like AK) which can include 64s, or I'll raise hands like that (64s, K8s) or whatever because I know that even IF they call pf, they'll generally just c/f the flop.

Others, I won't do that because if they call, they'll fight to the death to defend their call and won't give me any credit - so I just don't bother with them.

Sometimes I'll call with junk to bluff or semi-bluff raise the flop...or I'll float and take away on the turn...or even the river.

It's so player dependent.
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Postby Aisthesis » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:29 pm

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Postby black_knight6 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:22 pm

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Postby Aisthesis » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:13 am

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:18 am

For 1 and 2 let's assume we're OTB.

1) I'd probably 3bet with AA, KK, QQ, AK sometimes and 3bet with 63s or K7o sometimes, and almost always call with 22-JJ, AQ, 56s - KQs and also call with AA, KK, QQ and AK sometimes.

2) Pretty much the same as UTG as I would call with more hands (ie 85s, J9s, etc)

3) Assuming we're in the BB, my 3bet range is like: AA, KK, AK and junk with my calling range being pretty tight, 22-JJ, some SCs, AQ and that's about it. This is assuming the pot is HU. If we're in the SB my 3bet frequenciese are probably slightly larger.

4) Depending on the flop of the game anywhere from really tight (88+, AJ+) to really loose (22+, AT+, KJ+, all sorts of suited connectors and multiple gappers)

5) My 'range' here is fairly wide but my frequency for 3betting is lower than most as i will be calling a lot of the time with hands like KQ or AJ.

A general tip about 3betting though is that 3betting is very situation-dependant and a lot of the time your cards don't matter (as they will fold preflop or to your flop cb) so if you can find the right spots to 3bet then that will be far more effective than writing out a distinct list of hands you will 3bet with from each position against each player in what position and then following those to a key.

An example is that if we've been on a huge rush of cards and have been 3betting one person a lot when they raise UTG or in the CO and they again decide to raise. This would not be a good time to 3bet a junk hand and would be the perfect time to 3bet with AA. Mostly because our image will look pretty crazy and we won't get much credit so our bluffs will get less respect and our value raises will get paid off more often.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby redhouse » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:34 am

Thanks Roy. That was helpful. I should clarify though, that my intention here wasnt to establish 3 betting ranges for myself. I'm doing ok there. I want to do equity calcs for ranges against 3 bettors because thats where my biggest losses are coming - from playing back poorly.

Specifically,
- get some ballpark numbers for what percentage of folds can i expect to fourbet and what shape i'm in against a call.
- how often, and in what ways will flops hits their range if i just call the 3 bet
- what my bluffing equities might be if i bluff the flop would be a reach, but doable if i spend enough time. probably too complex and would have to make too many assumptions for meaningful results though.
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Postby black_knight6 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:29 am

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Postby redhouse » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:36 am

Well, yeah.

No offense BK, but please be more specific than 'find ways'
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Postby black_knight6 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:43 am

Think about it...get creative.

If you were to 3bet light, with K8s, and the flop was Q75r...how would someone make your life difficult?

Or if the flop came K95r?
Or AT4t
Etc, etc.

Once you start figuring out what would make your life hell, in his shoes...start DOING it to him. Eventually he'll give up because 3betting you lightly isn't worth the trouble/money.

Basically, no one's done this to me yet ;)
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Postby iceman5 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:56 am

iceman5 [As]
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