I don't know if anyone here has a resume that can stand up to Keller's. In the time he's been playing, he has been very successful. And nobody needs to make personal insults about him, what is this, Jr. High?
Also, Barry Greenstein might have started out w/ a huge roll, but not because he worked his way up, he was independently wealthy. It does not help me much to know that so long as I'm not wealthy.
The young big guns took chances, but there is no way Negreanu, Ivey, Lindgren, Keller, Esfandiari, etc. would have made it to the levels they are at now if they did not push it. And they went broke along the way too. Going broke is not a death sentence. I don't advise it, I play within my means, but it's not the end of the world. Doyle Brunson went broke over 50 times and he's done alright
Mike

Since I am a poker junkie from way back, I may possibly be qualified to have a few words here...Barry G made his money from poker, kids...He was successful in his forays into the computer biz, but nowhere near the likes of paul philips,
(not that that is a bad thing!!)..and he can play a bit---If you read enough online, you will find all you need...and more...

Bottom line is---Adam is just trying to make point---And if you never get anything else from his words, pay attention to the bankroll realities of poker...when adam goes off on a tangent, I get a bit annoyed as I am sure some of you do---he may have an unorthadox delivery, but if you pay attention to the main theme, It's all good stuff....
B

Ok, first of all, Adam is 37 times uglier, and MUCH fatter, than Keller. So, let's not have any attacks over how this man looks, ok?

And PLEASE don't put Keller, anywhere near the same category as Negraneau and Ivey.

To the guy who said that none of these guys "made it" without "pushing it" I'd suggest that you take your whole bankroll, sit down in the biggest game on the 'net, and then come to me for some tissues to wipe away the tears, after you GO BUSTED.

And buy the way, NEGRANEAU (and all the other Successful players) did NOT "push it"

He GROUND it out, in lower limits, and moved up . . WHEN APPROPRIATE.

Yeah, you take chances, but REASONABLE chances, and you know when to back down, and also how high to go up.


Keller going from a 4-8 player, with "shots" at 10-20, to a 400-800 player, VIRTUALLY overnight, is NOT going to get him long-term success.

In fact, ATE is thinking about sending him an email, warning him of the path he's on.

Although I did not watch him MUCH, it did not show sound judgement his call against Martin. Anyone who realize that there was no way that he bets all in, with anything that :

(1) either beats the hell, out of his 10 10

(2) or has a 50-50 chance of beating it (as was the case)


Now, on to the guy who tried to compare what Doyle Brunson did, with the conditions that exist today.

That's like saying "well, 6000 was enough to buy a house, in 1952, how come I need 300,000 today??!!

The conditions that existed in the past, were such that one COULD go busted, and make a RATHER quick comeback, starting out with 100 or less.

And don't think that the man didn't go through HELL, during those times that he went broke.

Slept in Cars, probably Ate little and played his BUTT off, all day and all night, until he was back

Steve Fox, on of Adam's early coaches said " You just came along 15 years too late Adam. You used to be able to go broke, hustle up $100 somewhere, and have $4000 at the end of the week."

And, this was true. Man, the things that existed THEN, just don't compare to what exists TODAY.


Who in the heck are YOU, to say "It's no so bad, to go broke" I mean, REALLY!!

Now, in you have 200 bucks, and are playing 1-2 limit games, with a job.

It's not so bad, to go broke.


But "going broke" does NOT mean losing some major bankroll.



Ha ha, so you think the story is over, on the matter of Keller, huh? Like he's acheived IMMORTALITY or something, just cause he's got 800K or so?


WRONG!! If he continues on his path of destruction (playing games WAYYYYYYYY over his HEAD, and his BANKROLL) The guy WILL go bust.

Of course, the tournament wins that he DID have, will do a lot for him in terms of getting staked in, and getting loans.

But, eventually, if you do not have the true talent, these loan and stake opportunities will dry up, and you'll be dealing 1-4 stud in RENO.

(Ed note: no offense to the Reno dealers)

Now, ATE has really NOT seen him play enough, to make a fair determination of his skill.

Just didn't like the thought processes he desplayed, on the final hand.

But, the judgement shown, on his RAPID increase in limits (Bet MY LEFT KIDNEY, THAT HE HAS ALREADY GONE PAST 400-800, and is trying to play with the BIG BOYS)

does not reflect the attitude of a LONG-TERM winner.


As long as he does not keep talking, about rapid leapfrogging in limits, I won't have a problem with him. If he can continue to do it, fine Good luck to you, Keller.

One thing Iv'e learned about moving up in limits, is, im a lot more cautious with bankroll money i win at the tables versus seed money i deposit when i sign up at a new site,IE the difference between found money and earned money. I can see this even at the low level I play.
I think Adam is probably going to be proven correct about Keller in the future. The guy obviously has plenty of skill, but I just dont see him in the same league as the big boys.

sonicboom