I'm having some problems in low limit games with betting on the turn and river. I'm a almost tight aggressive player (ie, I play about 30% of hands on average - mainly because I can get in cheap on the SB and BB in low limit). The problem I'm coming up against is that I'm aggressive in betting and am getting nailed on the turn/river betting.

Let me give an examples of where I'm getting dinged.

I'm on .25/.50 tables with $25. I'm dealt KK. I bet 2.50. I get called by someone who's very loose and fairly aggressive. Flop is 10 9 4. So I bet the pot at $6, and get called. Turn comes a Q. Now I'm rooked. Calling all my bets he could have a monster and is slow playing me. By betting aggressive the pot is now $18 and I'm already down 8.50. Then again, if I show weakness here by checking, he knows he can take the pot down with a large hand. How do I bet here?

If I have something good I bet strong after the flop. I have have something strong like high pair or an overpair, or a middle pair with straight/flush draw. But I'm running into two problems:

1) I'm facing people who aren't great players, and maybe calling with crap. But honestly, a high pair isn't super powerful, and a lot of times if I continue strong i get dinged with two pair / sets.
2) If I don't bet strong at the turn people are riding the river and if they nail what they are looking for are putting me in a situation where I have to fold or worse, call to a slightly smaller than pot bet with the high pair or overpair.

Lets put it into context

Preflop: 4x BB bet with something really good get called. Pot is now 9xBB.
Flop: To be strong with a pot sized bet, you're looking at 9x BB bet - pot is now 22x BB bet if someone calls.
Turn: really hard to bet strong here with a high pair or overpair, so usually I just call or bet something small to make someone at least pay something to see the next card.
River: I'm getting nailed by people who are trying to take down the pots with nothing and betting 22x BB bet (or pot), or sometimes more. So I end up having to make a nice sized bet (if it looks weak I'm going to get in a situation where someone goes over the top). So a lot of times I bet half the pot or 11x BB. After all I do have high pair.

To finish this example, the guy had pocket twos and nails the two on the river and I called a 1/2 pot sized bet to see them, which at that point in time put me down $17.

What's worse though is that I'm getting read when I play. If I bet aggressive people put me on a good hand, but they realize that if I don't bet big on the turn I don't have the monster hand and they can bluff me out. But if I do bet big on the turn I'm getting owned by people with triples or two pair.

What's wrong with my game here. It's getting to the point where I think my game is flawed and that I should start slow playing high pairs and overpairs and hope I get something on the turn or river to get the nuts and finish off these people. But that's giving EV to the opponents for whatever crap they can pull out too, when I have what probably is the best hand.

Uh, this is a very involved question. I just discovered that this site is supposed to be mainly about NL hold em. Did'nt know that before.

ATE never said that this was the game to play, online. It's very difficult to be able to tell what to do, without seeing your opponent.

To be accurate, ATE says that premium pairs, REALLY are not the types of hands that you should focus on, in Online NL, UNLESS you play them the ATE way.

You are usually destined to win a small one, or lose a big one. Unless you set up, you just don't know where you're at.


Personally, I make a much larger bet before the flop. If no one calls, well at least you didn't lose on them, ON TO THE NEXT HAND. If you are not getting any action, then you did NOT earn it. One cannot expect to get action, without laying the proper groundwork.

Personally, with KK and a flop like 10 9 3, I'd bet all in. No guesswork that way. If you have done the necessary things to create an "action" image, then you can expect calls.

At least that way, you did not give anyone a chance to beat you, for less than the most you could make it.

Nooooooo, I'm not going to specify the types of techniques for getting action.

Winning a pot, ANY pot, when you only have one pair, is NOT SUCH A BAD thing!!

Far better, than losing your stack, to some sucker that called with a bogus hand.

Leave the big pots, for your other hands.


ATE has played no limit hold em, REAL no limit hold em for about 12 years. I have recorded all my pocket aces, and out of 22 of them, only ONE lost.


And that's because I broke my cardinal rule: NEVER LET 'EM see a flop.


NO FREE CARDS!! NO CHEAP CARDS!! (when all yous got is a pair)