***** Hand History for Game 2858133672 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Wed Oct 19 21:27:22 EDT 2005
Table Table 36548 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: WindsOfWar20 ( $15.20)
Seat 2: Robert101 ( $15.15)
Seat 3: PcktJokers72 ( $94.03)
Seat 4: tdpalermo ( $15)
Seat 5: Nightware1 ( $25)
Seat 6: boogerfish ( $23.25)
Seat 7: briachek4 ( $68.46)
Seat 8: tycobb27 ( $39.50)
Seat 9: sorluc ( $0)
Seat 10: IainMBanks ( $24.75)
boogerfish posts small blind (0.10)
briachek4 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek4 [ Qh, Tc, Ac, 2c ]
tycobb27 calls (0.25)
IainMBanks folds.
WindsOfWar20 folds.
Robert101 folds.
PcktJokers72 calls (0.25)
boogerfish calls (0.15)
briachek4 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kh, As, 8d ]
boogerfish checks.
briachek4 checks.
tycobb27 checks.
PcktJokers72 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jh ]
boogerfish bets (0.95)
briachek4 calls (0.95)
tycobb27 calls (0.95)
PcktJokers72 folds.
** Dealing River ** : [ 3d ]
boogerfish bets (1)
briachek4 raises (3) to 3
tycobb27 folds.
boogerfish raises (11.70) to 12.70
briachek4 calls (9.70)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $27.80 | Rake: $1.45
Board: [ Kh As 8d Jh 3d ]
boogerfish balance $23.25, bet $13.90, collected $13.90, net +$0 [ 5d Qc 3h Td ] [ a straight, ten to ace -- As,Kh,Qc,Jh,Td ]
briachek4 balance $68.46, bet $13.90, collected $13.90, net +$0 [ Qh Tc Ac 2c ] [ a straight, ten to ace -- As,Kh,Qh,Jh,Tc ]


In the heat of the moment, i know it can see like raising the river after I reraise is a good idea. However, if i'm bluffing, i'm not calling and a good opponent isn't gonna bluff there. You will only be called by the same straight so don't feed the rake.

Sometimes its good to reraise even if you think its a split if there are enough other hands out there that may do it but this is not the time.

Gotta disagree there. If it was 4 to a str8 on board then maybe, but with only 3 broadways out there I fire at it till i can't fire no more. Too many guys will bet/call with a set or even top 2 here, if you don't raise it you are losing a lot more over the long run then the little bit of rake will cost you.

i normally agree that i push the nuts but think of it this way....who's calling a max reraise? Not someone with a set or lower straight. If he wants to reraise less, that can get a lesser hand to call. Not a max raise. Plus, if he pays attention, I'm a good player. Would a good player raise that river with anythihng less than broadway?

If he reraised me another 5 or so, i wouldn't complain. But he max raised me. Even the biggest fish is gonna fold sets since no other straights are possible besides QT.

Who's calling a max reraise? At $25 PLO/PLO8 on Party? Is that some kind of rhetorical question?

Push it. Push it hard.

i agree... push it.

it only takes one pot in a blue moon to make up for the "lost" rake. you'll get more than that, i imagine.

i think of anyone here, I have the most experience at PLO25 (42,000 hands) and this is the most obvious chop I have been involved in a long time. Losing 70 cents or 1.50 a hand due to rake adds up over time too. If there are other straights possible, i push. 1 straight possible and I'm 100% sure he has it. What other hand does this guy have? A set? Who max reraises my bet on the river with a set?

I agree, unless of course you know the guy is a bit of an idiot.

But almost certainly a reraise like that is a split.

let me refine my point.

using pto and pahud, i would only call if the player is a substantial winning player over, say, 1000 hand or more... or if i know based on experience that they don't go to the felt without a solid hand (in this case, the nuts).

for everything else... yeah, i've seen it, lower str8s, sets, etc.... and i would put as much money in as possible. hell, i've even jammed with a losing hand when i was so drunk that i couldn't really make out my cards (more accurately, the board -- now you know why i like 4-color decks -- also note that i currently have a 1 liter beer limit for poker over .05/.10).

unless you have a _dependable_ read that this guy has the goods, i would take him to the felt.

the rake is about $1 more -- your share is $0.50 (correct me if i am wrong with this calculation) -- for the potential of an additional $10 of his money. You don't see people donking 5% of the time -- one out of twenty?

if you say "no", i will gladly defer to your experience.

Well put Kuso. If it's looked at as a 1/20 proposition it sure seems like a no-brainer to me. If it happens to piss off the other player and tilt him, even more betterer.

how about looking at it from his perspective. I raised him on the river when he has the nuts and there is no other obvious hand that I could have as the river 3 didn't help me. What kind of hand must I have to call a max reraise on that river? If i am bluffing, I fold. If I have the same straight, I call and split the pot. If I have a good hand like a set, I fold to that kind of pressure because that reraise shows that the straight is out there. If he reraised me less than full pot, i wouldn't be as pissed off.

and no, i've NEVER seen some reraise without the nut straight when there is ONLY one straight possible. If there are multiple straights possible, i agree that i will go all in. I have never once seen this kind of action on this type of board and it wasn't split.

ok, this is slightly different than the model we're looking for, but it demonstrates the point. the fact that the hero is AoG is just icing on the cake.

***** Hand History for Game 2817874258 *****
$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Monday, October 03, 11:52:37 EDT 2005
Table Table 37070 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 8: gamesmm ( $39.29 )
Seat 4: CJP37 ( $10 )
Seat 10: rick14620us ( $27.37 )
Seat 6: mikeski22 ( $28.21 )
Seat 7: Dr_Welby ( $44.91 )
Seat 5: GreatWonka ( $23.75 )
Seat 9: Blaabar ( $12.15 )
Seat 1: AmourOfGod ( $22.90 )
Seat 2: h0ld_em_nerd ( $25.17 )
rick14620us posts small blind [$0.10].
AmourOfGod posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
h0ld_em_nerd folds.
CJP37 calls [$0.25].
GreatWonka calls [$0.25].
mikeski22 calls [$0.25].
Dr_Welby folds.
gamesmm folds.
Blaabar calls [$0.25].
rick14620us calls [$0.15].
AmourOfGod checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, Kd, Qc ]
rick14620us checks.
AmourOfGod checks.
CJP37 checks.
GreatWonka checks.
mikeski22 bets [$1.45].
kdogpenny1 has joined the table.
Blaabar folds.
rick14620us calls [$1.45].
AmourOfGod calls [$1.45].
CJP37 folds.
GreatWonka folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ac ]
rick14620us checks.
AmourOfGod bets [$5.60].
mikeski22 calls [$5.60].
rick14620us folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 7d ]
AmourOfGod is all-In.
mikeski22 calls [$15.60].
AmourOfGod shows [ 7s, Js, Ks, Ts ] a straight, ten to ace.
mikeski22 shows [ As, Ad, 4s, Kh ] three of a kind, aces.
AmourOfGod wins $45.85 from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
There was no qualifying low hand.
CJP37 has left the table.

regardless, i'll still believe briachek when he says that it doesn't happen often enough in his experience (particularly with only one str8 possible) to make it +EV.

I agree with briachek, and thats from experience playing the idiots at the penny stakes. If the worst players don't do it I hardly expect it to happen often.

i wonder if a pot-sized raise by B would have put a lid on it? the smaller than pot raise might look a bit suspicious to some.