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Chicken out on the river? - Live Poker Forums

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Chicken out on the river?

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Chicken out on the river?

Postby iceman5 » Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:37 pm

Ive noticed that probably more than most people, I check the river after betting the flop and turn. Most times I think its the right play, but alot of times I feel like I may leave money on the table. Here are 3 examples. Tell me if you would check the river or if you bet, how much? I'll give results of the hands later, but I'll say I checked the river in all 3 cases.

Blinds $1/$2
#1) I limp UTG with QQ. MP raises to $8 ($140 stack), Button calls ($120 stack bad player). SB calls ($250 decent player). I was going to limp reraise MP because he raises too much but changed my mind when the others called.

Pot is $34. The flop comes T94 rainbow. It gets checked around.
Pot still $34. The turn is a 2. SB checks, I bet $20. MP folds, Button and SB call.
Pot is $94. The river is a king. SB checks, I check.... do you check here?


#2) UTG limps and I raise to $12 with TT. UTG calls ($140 stack and hes horrible).
Pot is $27. The flop is 992. He leads into me for $10. I raise to $30 and he calls.
Pot is $87. The turn is another 9. He checks and I bet $45. He calls.
Pot is $177. The river is a queen. He checks and I check behind. Do you bet here? How much?


#3). UTG limps. I limp in MP with [Kc][Qc]. 2 more limpers.
Pot is $11. The flop comes [Kd][4h][7c]. UTG checks and I bet $10. Only UTG calls.
Pot is $31. The turn is the [2c]. He checks and I bet $25. He calls.
Pot is $81. The river is the [Js]. He checks and I check behind.
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Postby Eaglesfan » Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:17 pm

Hey Iceman... Been a while... On hand #1 I definately agree with the river check here. Being against two players I would check with the K hitting. One of the two players could have just hit a strait with QJ or two pair with KT or any K for that matter. Thinking in terms of EV a river bet here doesn't really have any +EV.

Hand #2, I may be more inclined to bet this river than hand #1. You said the players horrible so he could easily be calling you down with a small pocket pair or even A high if he thinks your bad, I wouldn't put him on a higher pair since you said he was horrible, though it is a possiblity. The river Q probably didn't hit him unless he had AQ calling you down with A high. I would probably just put him all in for about the 50$ he has left. Since he's a horrible player I'd think you have him beat most times here, if he had a bigger stack I would be less likely to bet as to not trap myself for the rest of his stack if he did happen to hit the river and raise me. But since he's a small stack and horrible I'd go ahead and value bet.

Hand #3, I like this check on the river. Looks like 5 people saw a flop that was favorable to you. The UTG limper checked and just called you down on the flop and turn, I would be a little concerned about him having AA, he also could have KJ and was calling you down with a weaker kicker and just hit a 3 outer, he could have limped UTG with AK and played the hand weird, or he could have been slowplaying a set the whole time with KK (he limped UTG so its a possiblity) 44, or 77 trying to get you with a check-raise on the river. All these factors considered I think if a bet on this river is a -EV play. I would actually put him on AA here a good amount of the time and he was probably just calling you down because he was scared one of the 5 limpers hit a monster. The # of hands that have you beat here outnumber the hands you don't beat here by a lot, if you were to value bet this river you'd have to be almost positive UTG has KT or something you have beat and not any of those other possiblities... KK, 44, 77, KJ, AK, or AA... Which is almost impossible to do.
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Postby Nortonesque » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:09 pm

I agree with Eaglesfan on #2. When he calls the raise I think you can put him on a pocket pair or a 9. When he only calls your turn bet, I'm reasonably certain it's not a 9.

Actually, I agree with Eaglesfan on all of them. There's no draw on #3 (unless he has 56, which I doubt), so it's hard not to put him on something like KJ or KT.
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Postby eliteprodigy » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:34 pm

I check behind them on all three spots. I am not going to open myself to a river-checkraise in any of these hands with my holdings even though I am most likly ahead. The pots are big enough as is.
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Postby eliteprodigy » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:51 pm

I check behind them on all three spots. I am not going to open myself to a river-checkraise in any of these hands with my holdings even though I am most likly ahead. The pots are big enough as is.
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Postby Mad Genius » Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:45 pm

Hand 1 I definately check, especially with one guy left. QJ hit straight, KQ hit pair, AK hit pair, KT hit two pair, etc. I can't really see anyone calling you with a worse hand. It doesn't even look like anyone has a Ten. And on a side note, why didn't you bet the flop? Were you looking to cr MP?

Hand 2 I definately bet. I'm 90% sure he has a lower pocket pair and will call a decent-sized value bet. He's not checking a 9 on the river and most definately not a Q (I don't even see how he could have a Q). When he makes his boat on the turn he's not folding if he's as bad as you say he is. And he doesn't have a higher pp than you. I would actually put him allin since he should only have like $55 left. As I said with $55 left and $177 in the pot I can't see him not going all-in with a Q or a 9, but feeling pot-committed he will still call with a hand like 66 or 77.

Hand 3 I check behind. UTG limp is always dangerous and while it doesn't look like he has a set his most likely hands are to be KQ, KJ and AK. You don't beat any of them. He could have KT but I'm not willing to get cr by KJ.
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Postby iceman5 » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:35 pm

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Postby Felonius_Monk » Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:53 pm

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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