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Question for you NL players

Postby TexasKowboy » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:34 pm

As you may or may not know I do not consider myself a strong NL ring player. Since I have started playing on Prima I have had a lot of success. But I know I can have even more if I was better.

Here are a couple of my problem areas.

I play 50NL and 100NL.

I am not sure how much to bet each street. I raise pre flop and get no action. Then if I limp I get my big starting hand busted by 72o. I bet 3X the BB 3rd street and no action. I limp and someone catches a flush.

This leads to problem area #2. How much to bet to get action but keep flush chaser from sucking out? Last night I was rivered more times then I want to count.

Thanks,
Kowboy

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Postby Stapher » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:09 pm

Hey Kowboy,

I raise 3 to 4 times the bb preflop depending on how loose or tight the table is. After the flop, if I'm going to bet I bet the size of the pot or just a little under it. You will get action with these bets, but keep in mind even if your not getting called you're still winning pots, and that is the whole point. Have a nice day :D
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Postby k3nt » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:10 pm

OK, I am no doubt much less experienced at NL than you are. But this is my thought that came as a really important insight when I had it.

You cannot control how much your opponents are willing to bet.

If they have what they feel like is a good hand, they will call your PF raise. If they don't, they won't. If nobody has a good starting hand and you have AA, go ahead and raise. You'll only take the blinds, but that's ok. Do it again next time and somebody will have a hand worth calling with.

This applies on all streets. Don't bet less just because you're so strong and you're begging for some calls. They don't know how strong you are! Make a standard sized bet (1/2 the pot at least) and make them guess. They've seen you make this bet with TPTK, so they come over the top of you with their two pair and they're busted because this time you have a set. (On the other hand, if they have nothing, they're going to fold no matter how little you bet.)

If anything, a strangely undersized bet from you will make a lot of people think more carefully than a standard bet would have.

You don't want to do anything unusual at all when you have a monster. Make your bet in the same amount of time as you would bet with top pair. Don't think extra hard about it -- anything unusual gets picked up on their radar.

Bet a good percentage of the pot every street even with a very strong hand. Either they will feel like playing or they won't. When they don't, fine, you win. When they do, you win a lot.

Betting too little and letting people with draws have the correct odds to draw -- that's the mistake I want to avoid. I'll push people off a dozen pots because I bet too much and be less unhappy with myself compared to letting one person bust me with a flush because I bet too little.

All just imho, and looking for comments/corrections, as per usual.
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Postby Stapher » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:19 pm

nice post kent. Consistancy is the key. Have a nice day :D
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Postby Three Outer » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:43 pm

My standard raise is about 5X BB and that's at PP 25, 50, and 100. That may also jump up if there are already limpers in the pot. For example, I have KK in the CO and there are 4 limpers, I might raise to 7-10x BB.
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Postby Rhound50 » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:37 pm

Kowboy,

With your flush chasers question, here is my key. I want these people in my hands but what I dont want is to be pot committed when they hit. If I think someone is on a flush draw I like a moderate bet on the flop, 1/2 to the size of the pot assuming there was not a lot of crazyness preflop, this should keep you from being pot committed if the flush cards falls on the turn. If it misses than I make it expensive now I dont want to give this player odds to draw at a flush here. Betting $5 into a $20 pot gives them the notion that they are getting a fair price to draw at their flush, though they really arn't. I put in a $20 bet here and make them pay through the nose to see the last card if they want to call fine, if they fold thats fine too I take down a decent pot and dont have to worry about being sucked out on the river. If they want to call that is even better a flush chaser makes a solid player a lot of money calling a big bet with an 18% chance of hitting on the river. I use the flop as my chance to bet and see where I am at especially when there are two flush cards on board. If you get a caller or more good chance someone is on that flush draw.
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