Well the limit section was looking lonely for a post so here it is. Unlike Iceman my specialty is limit holdem. I have spent nearly ten years in the trenches and will attempt from time to time to impart some of what I hope is wisdom from the games that I am playing.

The MAIN key to being a winning limit holdem player is playing good hands in good position or great hands in any position. The MAIN key to becoming a GREAT limit player is being able to maximize your win when you are involved in a pot or to be able to get away from hands when you are likely beat. Two examples today of maximizing a pot.

I am dealt 1010 UTG and raise, UTG+1 calls, all fold to ELP player who 3 bets. Now three bets to me in these low limit games usually spell out KK or AA and maybe QQ. Well I call looking to hit my 10 or I am probably done with the hand. The other player calls as well. Flop 10 7 5, A thing of beauty. Now how do you play this hand to make the most out of it knowing what the likely holding of the late position player is? You don't check and call his bet on the flop because the other player will likely dump all of his holdings after a bet and a call and that is the least of the bad things that can happen. YOU LEAD INTO THIS FLOP, now the UTG+1 player may very well call with alot of hands that contain overcards and the late position player will almost always raise even if holding a paltry AK here. That way you get to THREE BET the flop and force out the UTG+1 player with his dead money (+1 Small bet) and the late position player may even reraise you, which in this case he did cap if off so I know he has an overpair. So instead of playing the old check call on the flop and getting 3 SB in the pot I got 9 small bets in the pot. The turn is a 5 making me a full house now. Now what do you do? The guy just capped it off, check and let him bet again and them raise him for an additional 1 BB, If you bet into him he may very well just call now suspecting you have a set. There is always a chance he would check behind you but in this situation not likely. An Ace comes on the river. That is definately not the card I was looking for to drop off but if he has AAA then I am just going to have to lose 2 BB. I bet he just calls, NH sir, and the pot slides to me as his QQ hits the muck. BOTTOM LINE, PLAY YOUR SETS AGGRESIVELY FROM THE FLOP WHEN YOU FIGURE YOU ARE UP AGAINST AN OVERPAIR as you will make more money off of them instead of waiting until the turn to show strength.

Second example

1/2 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Thu Nov 04 12:27:15 EST 2004
Table Gimson Fride (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: ronin_8 ( $86.5)
Seat 2: ME ( $91.5)
Seat 3: spazzyjanet ( $21.5)
Seat 4: Bambopoker ( $44)
Seat 5: hookah_head ( $23.25)
Seat 6: petema ( $71)
Seat 7: HANKINSTEIN ( $61.62)
Seat 8: rickbear ( $46)
Seat 9: calexpo ( $34.5)
Seat 10: LarryCope1 ( $33)
ronin_8 posts small blind (0.5)
ME posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ 6c, 5s ]
spazzyjanet folds.
Bambopoker folds.
hookah_head folds.
petema calls (1)
HANKINSTEIN folds.
rickbear folds.
calexpo folds.
LarryCope1 folds.
ronin_8 calls (0.5)
ME checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Js, 4h, 7c ]
ronin_8 checks.
ME bets (1)

Flopped open end straight draw. I bet here in an attempt to just pick up the small pot.

petema calls (1)
ronin_8 calls (1)

Well I got company in both places so I need some help. When both players call on this rag flop I suspect that at least one, probably the LP player has a Jack. If I hit my straight I plan to check and give him a chance to bet, hoping the SB will also call and then I get to raise them both for BB. If I miss I will call for the river.

** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3s ] BEAUTIFUL, turned the nuts now play weak.

ronin_8 checks.
ME checks.
petema bets (2) BINGO, thanks for coming out sir.
ronin_8 calls (2) Thanks for your 2.00 contribution and see you next hand.
ME raises (4) to 4
petema calls (2)
ronin_8 folds.
** Dealing River ** : [ 5h ]
ME bets (2)
petema calls (2)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $19 | Rake: $1
Board: [ Js 4h 7c 3s 5h ]
ronin_8 balance $82.5, lost $4 (folded)
ME balance $102.5, bet $8, collected $19, net +$11 [ 6c 5s ] [ a straight, three to seven -- 7c,6c,5s,4h,3s ]
spazzyjanet balance $21.5, didn't bet (folded)
Bambopoker balance $44, didn't bet (folded)
hookah_head balance $23.25, didn't bet (folded)
petema balance $63, lost $8 [ Ts Jd ] [ a pair of jacks -- Jd,Js,Ts,7c,5h ]
HANKINSTEIN balance $61.62, didn't bet (folded)
rickbear balance $46, didn't bet (folded)
calexpo balance $34.5, didn't bet (folded)
LarryCope1 balance $33, didn't bet (folded)

By CR the turn I picked up 1 extra BB and perhaps saved myself from a split pot by driving out the SB with his dead Big Bet in the pot. ALWAYS be thinking HOW can I MAXIMIZE the pot that I am playing because that is where the difference between winning and breaking even or losing lies.

Piers --

You say "always be thinking how you can maximize the pot".... I have issues with this statement. It seems to me that there are sometimes when you would rather keep players in the pot due to implied odds, and there are times when you would like to limit the field even though it won't maximize the pot you're playing for. Is it true in your estimation that USUALLY, maximizing the pot is the most important factor in your decisions on the turn and river when you have a made hand?

Piers,

Good post. I am a limit player who will be checking this section 3-4 times a week. Please keep posting, I'll be lurking.

Hi Nash,

Sorry for the late reply but I was robbed in my house at gunpoint on Monday and I have just gotten another computer after working all week with the police in trying to catch these bastards.

You make a good point and I should have used better wording in than "maximizing the pot" in all circumstances as such things as checking in early position in hopes of raising a late better to limit the field is certainly an important play in certain situations and there are certainly others in which you don´t mind allowing people to draw that are drawing dead or very slim but these things in themselves are maximizing the pot to a certain degree. I guess I could have better said always be thinking about how to extract the most money in a pot while at the same time protecting your interest in the hand by attempting to eliminate other players (or at least half their odds to draw).

I guess what I am getting at is don´t just go on autopilot and bet or check or call without thinking what is the BEST way to play a hand in a certain situation and there is usually a best way to do so although sometimes it works out that a suboptimal stategy would have succeeded better.

piersmajestyk,

Sorry to hear about your being robbed at gunpoint.....hope all is well and you and your family are safe.......hope they catch them as well. I've been robbed before but luckily never any physical threats or harm....we weren't home and it is an unbelievably awful feeling......can't imagine if the physical threat part was there as well......again...hope all is well.....

Great post.....I am refocusing back on low limit hold em myself after getting in over my head in NL........we shall see how it goes.....I'll be checking back often and hopefully contributing as well.

Baz

Thanks Bazkar,

Yes it was an awful feeling watching them take our things and not being able to do anything about it. I spent the week going from being sad to pissed off and pretty much everywhere in between. I am just glad my wife was not at home as she is 6 months pregnant and the additional stress of being there certainly wouldn't have done her any good. You never think that will happen to you. I had many things on my computer that I didn't have saved anywhere (my dissertation, other scientific papers I was working on, etc.) except on my zip drive and they took that as well.

I too have been dabbling in the NL games and doing ok but I am starting to go back to limit almost predominantly as my win rate there overshadows my NL win rate. I think this is partly because I have been playing limit for a long time now and just have a real good feel for how to handle pretty much any situation very quickly and I can do so playing at 4 tables whereas in NL while being no fool I just don't have the experience to handle all the situations that arise properly especially when trying to multitable.

Hope to post some more hands and discussion soon. Bought a computer today without virus protection and have immediately acquired problems. Now the machine has crawled to a near standstill while I am trying to download some antivirus software so my poker is on hold yet again.

There are several reasons to bet this flop. Many loose limit players will take a card off here on the flop with a hand like KQ. So you stand a good chance of getting called on the flop by players drawing dead. If LP has a hand like AK. You may well get a raise as he's going for a free card. At this point I think the tough decision is whether to 3 bet. You want the people drawing dead to stay in the pot, yet with the pot being raised to 3 bets preflop, the pot is already large, and the player may well call 2 more small bets just praying to hit his overcard. If the 3 better was to your left then you probably check-raise the flop here in the hopes of trapping your opponents in between you for another SB.

Bakzar, technically you were burgalrized, not robbed. You cant be robbed if your not home. Robbery penalties are much higher, as they should be, because the face to face encounter with a man with a gun is MUCH more terrorizing not to mention dangerous.

Piers, did the guy just force his way in the house or what?

Hey Ice,

The original guy didn't force his way into the house. The background of what happens lies in the previous month where the person in the apartment across from me was having her kitchen remodeled and a couple of times a guy ot two knocked on our door to ask for water because they had her water shut off do to whatever. We allowed them to come in and got them some water. Well I did not know that these people had finished up work about a week before the robbery and when a guy knocked at the door saying he needed water *or at least that is what I interpreted as my Spanish is still really bad" I let him come in and went with him to get some water. That is when his three buddies entered behind us. So I have no doubt that the people behind this are friends of the workers from across the hall.

I got my hands free while sitting on my bed and probably could have grabbed the gun when one of them laid it down at the end of the bed but my feet were still tied up and beyond that I thought that if the gun wasn't loaded *it was a VERY old sawoffed 0.20 guage" I would be in pretty bad shape so I didn't go for it. I have thought about that situation over and over again and whether I made the correct choice and I think I did.

They tied you up too? Damn! Ive been in some pretty bad spots as a cop and in the Army, but I cant say Ive evern been tied up.

I'd say that if you survived, you made the right moves. Im picturing you on the floor with your feet tied. You grab the shotgun. There are 3-4 of them. No way you can fen them all off even if it IS loaded. A pistol would be a different story, but a shotgun is too clumsy for you to be able to keep them all covered w/o one of them grabbing it back.

Sorry to hear about that