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Short Stack experiment

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Postby wreck27 » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:57 pm

“The real things to know is that folks will stand to lose more than they will to win. That’s the most important percentage there is. I mean, if they lose, they’re willin’ to lose everything. If they win, they’re usually satisfied to win enough to pay for dinner and a show. The best gamblers know that.” - Pug Pearson
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Postby black_knight6 » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:01 pm

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Postby piersmajestyk » Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:52 pm

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Postby SebQtaneus » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:08 am

I got bored after going out of the BTP S&G in 8th place tonight so I decide to try out this short stack theory you guys have been talking about on some NL20 tables at Doyles Poker just for fun. 4 tables at a time. Played 5 total since I doubled up on one fairly early and followed the rules by leaving and going to a new table.
My results were not as good as most everyone elses. But that may have something to do with the stakes I was playing. It may have been NL20 but the min buyin was $5, not $2. I don't know it that makes a difference or not but I thought I would mention it.
Small sample size I know but it isn't starting out well.

244 hands
20 pushes
10 calls (although 2 of the calls were multi way and I lost the both)
Wins: 3
Loses: 7
Ties: 0
Winnings: -$17.29
PTBB/100: -17.6

As you can see, I got called 50% of the time which I think has something to do with the stakes I was playing at. But even so, I lost many of them when I was the clear favorite Preflop.
Mekos King: Seb is now the way the truth and the light
Mekos King: as if we didnt know that already
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Postby Derk » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:22 am

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Postby wreck27 » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:05 pm

Yea Seb, thats alot of calls and alot of pushes. You pushed twice as many times as the rest of us with half as many hands played.

i pushed 13 times out of 448 hands( 1 in 34)
Pier pushed 37 out of 736 hands(1 in 20)

You 20 times out of 224(1 in 11)

You only pushing JJ-AA/AK?
“The real things to know is that folks will stand to lose more than they will to win. That’s the most important percentage there is. I mean, if they lose, they’re willin’ to lose everything. If they win, they’re usually satisfied to win enough to pay for dinner and a show. The best gamblers know that.” - Pug Pearson
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Postby SebQtaneus » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:34 pm

Mekos King: Seb is now the way the truth and the light
Mekos King: as if we didnt know that already
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Bankroll Size??

Postby bigbadshawn » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:55 pm

If a person is satisfied with avg. $20-$25/hr profit, what size bankroll should they have?? Would you still subscribe to the notion of 200-300 BB's? I've been playing with this experiment on PS and PP and am beginning to think it might be a good way to supplement my income. I already have a full time job, but like the idea of making some extra $$ while in my underware. I know some on this topic have said this isn't REAL poker, and I'm sure most of you make more than $20-$25/hr, but as a fairly new online player (1yr), I'd like to give this a shot. I'd also like to know how many tables everyone's been playing. Thanks
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I tried, I failed, I cried.

Postby thaninja » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:40 am

I played 3000 hands of .50/1.00 NL on Party over the last 5 days

I went all in with AA, KK, QQ, JJ and AK.

After 3000 hands, I am down $70 or 1.14 PTBB/100

AA 9 times - 4 Calls - Cracked Once 5.78 BB/100
KK 21 Times - 7 Calls - Cracked 3 times 3.31 BB/100
QQ 11 Times - 2 Calls - Always Held 3.27 BB/100
AK 42 Times - 8 Calls - Cracked 5 Times (Suited and Offsuit) 1.00 BB/100
JJ 11 Times - 5 Calls -Cracked Twice 1.22 BB/100

94 all ins - 26 Calls = 27.6% Calls.

AQ - Not Playing Anymore! All in 2x - Lost Both!

96 All in - 28 Calls = 29.1% Calls.

Am I running terribly or doing this wrong? I have strictly been going in on all hands. I haven't bothered to raise my KK and AA from late because I think the all in looks more like a shitty blind steal attempt and gets people to defend with inferior holdings.

I had a downswing of 250BB (125PTBB) doing this.

I made 2 bluffs which didn't work (never bluff with your short stack I guess) for -60 and a couple other errors for no more than $90 total mistakes over this sample.

I have been limping my small PP's from the the button to 3 positions in front of it with some success.

Could someone post a larger sample to see what the BB/100 avg's out to over 25000 or so? Also, if someone could confirm that I got a cold deck that would be great.

What do you think about never reloading - If you sit at table and start with 30BB, as soon as you hit 20, go to another table. Your opponents may have a read on you and see how tight you are whereas when you just sit at a table, you look like a donk when you push. I will reload when I get busted if I haven't been there long. But if I dwindle below 20, I am going to walk and get a fresh table and fresh image. Your thoughts?
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Postby black_knight6 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:02 pm

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Postby thaninja » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:29 pm

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Postby black_knight6 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:33 pm

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Postby thaninja » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:51 pm

I agree - I was using the limit strategy, which is why I was only calling when there was no raise, and there were limpers ahead of me. I called a min raise occasionally because I still had the implied odds covered.

The bluffs were uncalled for - but there were only 2 in 3000 hands so its not like it was a part of the strategy, it was a leak (always from a blind) and wanted to explain the whole 3000 hands entirely. I am going to try your PP Strategy next BK - thanks for responding.

Still wondering - Did I run bad for 3000 hands? We'll find out tonight!

EDIT:
Over 3000 Hands I made $390.45 with my All in Push Hands.
At 100NL each 10 hands costs 1.50 so 300 Rounds *$1.50/Round = $450 - for an strategically sound loss of $60.45. Variance? I don't know!
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Postby thaninja » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:09 am

Hello All - Just an update.

8000 Hands - All 100NL - AA KK QQ JJ AK ONLY!
All in 278 Times for +$1218.30
Cost of Blinds 8000*1.50= $1200.

There were some 2 pair / trips / etc from Blinds. Total Profit: $116.38 or .71 BB/100

This is boring. If someone else has a larger sample, please share.

Thanks
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Postby SebQtaneus » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:30 am

Mekos King: Seb is now the way the truth and the light
Mekos King: as if we didnt know that already
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