Hey everybody --

Good to see this forum in good hands for a change!

I've played a few SNGs at lower limits in recent days -- just screwing around a little bit -- and I noticed that there has been quite a change in play. Most players in the $30s and $20s that I sat in played much closer to correctly than I seem to remember. Some even err on the tight side.

However, that does NOT change the appropriate strategy for beginners. Prehaps start each stage of the game a level later if you must tinker with something, but the principles still stand. I still guarentee that if you follow my strategy to the letter, you'll have a positive ROI in the long run.

One thing that might be easier is shorthanded play. With opponents who are tight *by nature* and force themselves to loosen up "because they have to" near the end of SNGs, checkraising can be relatively effective. Also, I still think that most players have big tells from the small blind when 3 handed or heads up -- if they flat call from the small blind, odds are that you can easily raise them off of their hand once or twice before they catch on. If they min raise, don't raise back -- you have a bigger advantage once the flop comes out, and there's a chance that they really do have a big hand.

Well, well, well, the Prodigal Son returns.

Glad you returned to the scene of the crime. They are getting harder, aren't they, even at the lowest of limits? The average player isn't really that much better, but the majority are playing closer to correct poker.

Here's what I'm seeing, Nash. The problem isn't that they are tight and weak, but tight and struggling against their nature. They want to play. Desperately. They know they should be playing tight and they're doing their level best, but at a point, they explode. Like champagne bottles on a shelf, the corks come out one at a time, and you have to hope you're not around when they go off with a hand.

Your original strategy is still good, but there aren't many revisions that can be made which "guarantee" much. There is no pattern to these any more. Some tourneys they are so tight that the blinds are way, way up with only a couple of players having busted out. You can wait for a long time, knowing that at some point a bunch of them will go off at the same time. You can work them over by outplaying them post-flop, but you better have the skills or it will cost you. You can play carefully and gather chips along the way--assuming you are playing all but Party, in which case you better have a rabbit's foot--or you can just play tight/tight and be aggressive when you have position.

SNGs are just no longer the "safe" way to make money, anymore. My own ROI has steadily eroded in the past quarter. I still enjoy them. They are still my favorite game. But I'm having to look elsewhere to make the consistent money I used to make from SNGs. I'm still one of the two best players at any SNG I've played in the past 3 months, but the gap has closed considerably.

Is that a "money back" guarantee?

I hope you'll give us a little more of your limited time. We all appreciate the help.

CJ

Welcome back from the grave ( flash Gordon ).

Good to see you around again Nash.

I know what you guys are saying but on average the players are still the same IMO. If you divide the number of players on a site by the number of descent players you would still have the same number IMO.

I used to play 3-5 games at a time. Now I only play 2 at a time. I do this so I have a better read on who is a better player and put extra pressure on them when I know they have a good hand but not the best. As limits move up the more chance you have on being on a table with more descent players. I do better with a few good players then with 8 goofballs.
I have about 6 years of experience now and find it better to read players at these sng's.
On Nl cashgame tables still totally misread the sharks.

Good to have you back!

Tom.

If you want to pressure all in is the move but it better be worth it ( blinds ).

I do a lot of stealing from EP with holdings like K10 or other crap. You will get more credit for a hand. You don't have to raise much there one or two times the BB is enough.
This move will give you more credit then a bigger move from LP.

A mini raise from LP will often give you more credit then the all in move. This is a move that looks like you want them in the pot. These moves are only for late stage play ofcourse against players who have been paying attention.

Nash you know that you are back when your first post gets hijacked.

I agree that the SNGs have become tighter at the lower levels. I have moved from 95% SNGs at this time last year, NLHE only to 80% cash games and 20% SNGs, primarily Omaha and O8. I have done this because I believe there is a better skill advantage in Omaha and O8 than in NLHE, as most of the fish have at least learned the basics of NLHE strategy.

Here is something to ponder. Go to your local bookstore and go to the games section. In the poker section, I saw roughly 50 NLHE related books and could not find one book dedicated to Omaha or O8. That, my friends, is the definition of a saturated market.

My primary concern is with TV poker seeming to gradually lose its grip on the public, where will the new fishes come from? IMO, it is from NLHE players "trying Omaha", and that is where I'm spending my time. I still play NLHE every now and then, but have come to a point where its "not really fun".

Thoughts? PS, welcome back Nash.