[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4783: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4785: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4786: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4787: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
Harrington 3 and SNGs--a new approach - Live Poker Forums

Advanced search

Harrington 3 and SNGs--a new approach

All topics related to the mini tournaments

Moderators: Cactus Jack, LPF Police Department

Harrington 3 and SNGs--a new approach

Postby Cactus Jack » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:34 am

"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
User avatar
Cactus Jack
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:24 am
Location: Vegas, baby

Postby flafishy » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:59 am

Howard Lederer advocates the same thing. He wrote a column at fulltilt.com on this a year or so ago. IIRC, he said your only objective until the bubble bursts is to turn a profit. Once you're there, everything else is gravy.

Just found it. March 15, 2005. An excerpt:

The payout structure rewards tight play. Most SNG's pay 50% to first, 30% to second, and 20% to third. This payout structure dictates that you play for third. Why? Looking at the payout structure another way might help. Basically, the payout means that 60% gets awarded once you are down to three players, 20% gets awarded when you get down to two players, and the final 20% gets awarded to the winner. If you can just get to third, you get at least one-third of 60% of the prize pool, or 20%. You've locked up a profit, and you have a chance to win up to 30% more. It's only now that you're in the top three that your strategy should take an abrupt turn. Now it pays to gamble for the win. Let's look at the numbers again: 60% of the prize pool is off the table, and moving up one spot is worth only another 10%. But move up just one more spot and it's worth a whopping 30% extra -- that's three times more for first than it is for second. And with the blinds going up, gambling for the win is even more clearly the correct play.

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/proLessons.php?lesson=1
"It's all over, baby." -- Scotty Nguyen
"It's all downhill after the first kiss." -- Lou Reed
User avatar
flafishy
 
Posts: 1241
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:19 am
Location: Lauderhill, FL

Postby GreaterThanU » Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:25 am

User avatar
GreaterThanU
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:40 am
Location: Murkville, USA

Postby EscapePlan9 » Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:58 pm

Bubbles usually last a while in online SNGs. If you're still playing ridiculously tight and waiting for others to blind out, you are dooming yourself to being extremely short-stacked when ITM. You might slide ITM with 5x BB or so. And then when you're ITM and have 5x BB, the other two stacks have tremendous chip leads on you. Then you have to double up a few times to get back in the game. Also... people's calling ranges open up tremendously when they've already made it ITM, so your 5x BB pushes will be called more often than not.

One of the biggest critiques of Harrington's newest volume is his lack of experience with online STTs. Many times he gives advice along the lines of MTTs when playing pre-flop and post-flop in SNGs, for instance.
User avatar
EscapePlan9
Professional Donk-n-Go'r
 
Posts: 4305
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 2:22 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby Beavis68 » Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:44 pm

It doesnt fly in the face of wisdom. Anyone that has spent 20min with SnG power tools or the ICM already new this. We were talking about this stuff on the "site that shall not be mentioned" months ago. I think it has been discussed on "4" also.

Chip ev and $ ev are not equal at the end of SnGs - probably not anywhere in SnGs.

As mentioned, Lederer wrote about it a while ago, so did Phil Gordon and Ferguson.

Flatfishy spelled it out pretty well.

Play to maximize your gain, not to win. Final table play probably has some similarities esp, final 5 or so.

There was a post on here about folding KK on the bubble a month or two ago that discussed these concepts too.

Consider the pay out differences from an MTT to a SnG.

MTT about 10% is paid out at the bubble 90% of the prize pool is still up for grabs (although you can probably only win an addition 50% or so) huge ratio.

SnG 60% is awarded and 40% is up for grabs, but you can only really claim 30% more. I had this so wrong when i started playing, but still managed to win a decent amount. probably because i was usally the aggressive one.

You should be calling very conservatively on the bublle.

Do a google search for Independent Chip Model if you havent played with it yet, great for analysing SnG hands and lot MTTs.
User avatar
Beavis68
 
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:43 pm
Location: double secret probation

Postby Cactus Jack » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:31 am

"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
User avatar
Cactus Jack
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:24 am
Location: Vegas, baby

Postby Xaston » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:11 pm

Boy, you got me confused with a man who repeats himself.
User avatar
Xaston
 
Posts: 8833
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: Dartmouth, MA

Postby Beavis68 » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:24 pm

User avatar
Beavis68
 
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:43 pm
Location: double secret probation

Postby EscapePlan9 » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:25 pm

User avatar
EscapePlan9
Professional Donk-n-Go'r
 
Posts: 4305
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 2:22 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby Beavis68 » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:29 pm

User avatar
Beavis68
 
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:43 pm
Location: double secret probation

Postby tommyhawk » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:34 am

I think 2-3 years ago I was the tight ass around here and thought it was best to wait till you reach the money before flipping yourself out or way up.

After hearing so many players say you have to go for first place i adjusted my style in the course of last year with much more swings as a result.
The 33 in a row ($55) OTM finishes with 46% of them being 4th places had me leaving SNG's.

I do very well at the NL cashgames at the moment and I am not planning to leave them for my main income but I do feel my job at the sng's is far from over.

All in all in any game you should play the style that comes natural to you. You only gotta change it if you are not making money and find were you can tune your game.
If you start playing a style that not suits you it won't make you money in the long run because you are pretending to be a player that you are not.

I have much respect for Dan Harrington as everybody must have. His style suits me best. But is not the bible on poker and if you are a Gus Hansen kind of player it may be total rubbish for you. Just try to get the best out of all these books and try to plug leaks you might have.

If you are a winning player don't change the channel just tune to get a better perception.
User avatar
tommyhawk
 
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:21 am
Location: $20 NL

Postby Cactus Jack » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:59 pm

"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
User avatar
Cactus Jack
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:24 am
Location: Vegas, baby

Postby Bosox1 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:35 pm

"No, 'The stripper's bouncer beat the shit out of me' is not an acceptable answer"
User avatar
Bosox1
 
Posts: 886
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Postby DaFish » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:58 pm

User avatar
DaFish
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:07 am

Postby Cactus Jack » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:08 pm

Thanks, Bosox. :oops:
"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
User avatar
Cactus Jack
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:24 am
Location: Vegas, baby

Next

Return to Sit and Go's (SnGs)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron