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Making Moves (8-12x BB Land) - Live Poker Forums

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Making Moves (8-12x BB Land)

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Making Moves (8-12x BB Land)

Postby EscapePlan9 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:43 am

Whenever you're in a SNG and down to 8-12x BB, you have to start considering making some moves soon. With these hands in these situations, you should be pushing all-in and nothing else! No raising, no limping, no folding, and no checking. Any decent raise you do in these situations pot commits you anyway.

Hand #1: TT UTG
Nothing unusual about this table. A few fish, a few LAGs, a few rocks.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) from (Format: Bet The Pot)

SB (t2310)
BB (t4930)
Hero (t2160)
MP (t2490)
CO (t1880)
Button (t1230)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with [Ts], [Td].
Hero PUSHES


-----------

Hand #2: 99 in BB after limpers
BTN has been extremely loose, playing close to 50% of flops. SB is semi-loose, playing maybe 20%.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) from (Format: Bet The Pot)

MP1 (t2010)
MP2 (t985)
CO (t2060)
Button (t4355)
SB (t2235)
Hero (t1315)
UTG (t940)
UTG+1 (t1100)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [9h], [9s].
5 folds, Button calls t100, SB completes, Hero PUSHES

In this situation, your hand barely matters, but I'd prefer to have something incase one of them decides to call with a powerhouse hand like K8s. I've had it happen to me twice recently. Gotta watch out for some of those loony loose players.

---------------

Hand #3: AJo in CO after limpers

Usually this would be extremely risky with the two early position limpers. Once again, I had a read that these two were loose. If they folded, you would open-push with AJo from the CO anyway.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed) from (Format: Bet The Pot)

SB (t2020)
BB (t3815)
UTG (t3690)
MP (t2185)
Hero (t1465)
Button (t1825)

Preflop: Hero is CO with [As], [Jd].
UTG calls t150, MP calls t150, Hero PUSHES


------------

Discuss?
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Postby hard2tel » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:05 am

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Postby Cactus Jack » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:10 am

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:27 am

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:30 am

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Postby Cactus Jack » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:44 am

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:59 am

When players see some of the hands I push with in late game, I get berated frequently. I don't care. Usually they're the ones making the bad calls with QJ and whatever. And I'm not about to correct them!

And when I'm big-stack bullying them around on the bubble (say I have 6000 chips and they all have around 1200-2400 chips at the 150/300 blinds), I get some harsh comments as well. Once again, I pay no mind. Let them be blinded away and finally call me when they're short-stacked where it does no harm to me anymore if they win (and it's not like you have to lose every 40/60 or 30/70 battle anyways). And just because I'm putting them all-in frequently doesn't mean I don't want to be called or that I always have trash. I don't do stupid stuff like small raising AJ-AK at these levels. When you have A-high, be happy to just take down the huge blinds. Push when the situation warrants it.

Also... since you've probably been pushing more than others at the table, don't get cute with AA/KK, it'll be obvious. Just push again. They won't know. Let them make their call with KQ or whatever.

A great quote I heard from a 2p2 STT pro, "Assume everyone you're playing against is horrible. They are literally throwing their money at you every time you sit down." Lacking a read, I've been following this advice and it's been working like a charm. These players are awful and don't know what hands they should be calling with, raising with, pushing with, folding with, and etc etc. Don't min-raise - you want more money from these bad players! Treat them like Funston - bet and raise and they'll call with trash.
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Postby Cactus Jack » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:30 am

That's a great quote, and without having heard it, I've developed the same attitude.

I raise a lot on the bubble. Sometimes they push back and I fold. Not a big deal if I've got more than 10BBs. (I find the "sweet spot" when raising, usually somewhere around 1.5 to 2.5BBs.) Eventually, I'll be raising and they'll push and I'll have the goods. That's when they are in big trouble. Not just the one I crush, but the rest as well. When they see this happen, they give me credit every time and get even more cowed. The aggressive player wins far more often than he loses. Not even close.

Min raises when the blinds are 400/800 are quite acceptable. Raises are more to keep the blinds from getting a free look at this point, assuming you have a big stack. Most players can't add. They don't realize that 300 chips with blinds at 300/600 is only 5BBs. :) A min raise at this point puts them to a decision they mostly get wrong. If he has 3000 and you raise to 1200, he'll fold without a fight unless he has a big hand and you put him on the critical list without his even knowing it.

I saw a guy yesterday literally fold his BB with the SB going to put him all in next hand. That's the kind of player we're facing. Assuming they're horrible isn't a leap of faith.

At some point, EP, we're going to have to rewrite the Guide.
"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
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Postby RuiCosta » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:25 pm

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:28 pm

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Postby Cactus Jack » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:22 am

Also you need to read up on folding equity. By pushing in the late stages, you are either pushing or folding, unless you've got a huge chip stack and can push people around. (That's fun.) Regardless of their knowledge, which is pitifully thin, it takes a better hand to call than to raise. It takes a pretty strong hand to call an all in. Marginal hands which are probably beating you can't take the heat and will fold. You have to stay ahead of the blinds and the only way you can do that is to raise and the best way to raise is push when you're down to 10BB.

Raising 3BB leaves you with only six behind. You're going to fold? Doubt it. So, push and let the gods sort it out if you run into a big hand. You won't often enough to make it -EV. That's the point.

Anything else is uncivilized. :)

EP puts it far better than I, but hopefully my agreement will add some weight to his brilliant take on this subject. You'd do well to listen. We've won a few of these. ;)
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Postby EscapePlan9 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:35 am

haha thanks for the props. You added onto my response. NH
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Postby RuiCosta » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:49 am

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Postby Cactus Jack » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:48 pm

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