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Should I have folded to the river bet? - Live Poker Forums

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Should I have folded to the river bet?

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Should I have folded to the river bet?

Postby Trons » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:52 pm

I got some T$ so I've been playing some cheap tourneys to get back into the tourney mode...I've ITM 4 for 8 so far (not too bad for taking a year break). This hand gave me headaches though...thoughts are appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) from (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB (t1260)
BB (t3120)
UTG (t2900)
Hero (t3055)
MP2 (t1630)
CO (t465)
Button (t1070)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with KImage, AImage.
UTG calls t30, Hero raises to t150, 1 fold, CO calls t150, 2 folds, BB calls t120, UTG folds.

I thought the size of the raise would drive a few out...I've been playing TA and doubled up early when my JJ ran into A9s and I flopped trips...

Flop: (t495) 8Image, KImage, 6Image (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t315, CO calls t315 (All-In), BB calls t315.

My flop bet was designed to push the SS AI and allow me and BB to check it down giving us a better chance to pushing him out.

Turn: (t1440) 7[img]

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/ima ... iamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero checks.

So far so good.

River: (t1440) 8Image (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets t200, Hero calls t200.

This caused me some concern. Even at this level, I didn't expect anybody to bluff at a dry side pot, but with the pot odds (for the main pot) I don't see how I can fold it either...I thought for a while before calling and this is where I'm questioning my play...

Final Pot: t1840

Results in white below:
BB has Jc Ah (one pair, eights).
Hero has Kc Ad (two pair, kings and eights).
CO has Kd 9h (two pair, kings and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins t1840.


Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Postby rickjr82 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:22 pm

BB is not going to fold a hand that beats TPTK almost ever, so don't worry about driving a better hand off.
There is a flush draw and possible straight draw on the board.
BB will generally not bluff in that situation.
This is a great time to get value out of your hand, because you can fold easily if raised and be pretty sure that he is not bluffing.
I bet 800 on the turn to protect my hand(folding to a raise)
I think I valuebet the river 800 also(folding to a raise)
I call the river bet 100% of the time getting 8:1, your hand is under represented.

I think softplaying is weak with 6 people left in the tournament and checking it down without the nuts is a good way to throw away value against a shortstack who could have anything. I laugh every time somebody gets mad because a shortstack survives after I make +EV play. There are definitely times to check it down, but just as many times not to.
There are even times where having a shortstack survive can be +EV because it keeps the table playing tight(allowing you to steal more).

Also, don't vary your bet sizes (especially early on) just because you do not want a call, a good player will take you apart. Make your standard raise.
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Postby EscapePlan9 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:51 am

8 is way too small a sample size.

The hand itself... I'd only make it 120 pre-flop, but 150 is okay.

With that many players in the hand, I bet closer to 380 on that semi-coordinated flop. Bet about 60% pot on the turn since there's still a good chance you're ahead (fold to a raise). Check behind on river or call a small bet.

As played, that's a totally standard river call. You're getting 8:1 and considering folding on that river with TPTK?
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Postby Trons » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:05 pm

About the "4 of 8" thing, I'm just saying that really says nothing. It's nothing to be "proud of" really.

Flop: I don't know why you're not trying to build a side pot here. If you hit TPTK in a SNG, you want to make some good value from it. People suck at poker and will call you down with draws, worse kickers and worse pairs. Get the money from them while you're still very likely ahead.

I don't agree the river card was scary. In fact, it made the board less scary. It counterfeits some two-pairs, and no flush or straight possibilities came through. Folding that river would be really bad.
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Postby rickjr82 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:34 pm

I got my hair highlighted, because I felt some strands were more important that others.
-Mitch Hedberg
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Postby DaFish » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:16 am

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