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What's my line? - Live Poker Forums

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What's my line?

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What's my line?

Postby Cactus Jack » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:58 am

You are on the button with [Ks] [Ts] and the big stack, halfway through with 7 left.

UTG limps for 60, EP calls, you raise 3X. BB and SB fold. Limpers call.

Flop is [6s] [Qc] [Jd]

Checked to you. Your play?
Last edited by Cactus Jack on Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby flafishy » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:39 am

I bet about 250. I'm finding that those limp-callers usually are low pairs -- 55, 66, 22, stuff like that. Every now and then, it'll be a middling or low connector like JT or 89 or something, but not often. But they'll usually raise preflop with a PP higher than 7s or 8s.

If my math is correct, 250 would be about two-thirds of the pot here, big enough to chase them away but small enough that you wouldn't be damaged if someone check-raises you with a set of 6s.

If you get one or two callers, they either hit a gutshot straight draw with something like 89 or, more likely, are holding on to that 55 for dear life, and you're in great position to see what the turn brings.

The only thing to really fear if you get a caller is someone carrying a slowplay too far with 66 or possibly AA. But I would expect a check-raise with any of those holdings. I can't imagine either of them would have checked the flop holding a Q, and I wouldn't think either would have limped preflop with KK or QQ or JJ.
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Postby EscapePlan9 » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:05 pm

If I were going to play it pre-flop, and I had a read on the first two limpers, I would have raised more than 3x BB. As a rule, I raise at least 4x BB after a limper (exactly how much depends on numerous factors - hand strength, reads on opponents, chip stacks, etc).

I would bet around 2/3 pot there. If raised, I fold. If called, I re-evaluate on the turn. Would one of these callers chase with an OESD or middle/bottom-pr? Will they fold TPWK to a turn bet? Lacking a read, I'd check behind on the turn unimproved and have to re-evaluate on the river.
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Postby MTPaid » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:35 pm

Bet 1/2 to 2/3 pot. Doubtful anyone has a Queen. Possible slow play of set or straight draw. If you get called, you'll have a tougher decision on the turn.
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Postby Triple B » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:05 am

Ugh...I agree with MTPaid, you gotta bet this. However, raising this hand 3xbb is terrible IMO. You are building a pot with a marginal hand, which is not what you want to do even with position.

This is a clear limp or fold if I've ever seen one. The only hand I may make this play with is if I have the A of cups and the K of wands... ;)
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Postby Stoneburg » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:54 am

Yeah I really don't like the raise. If a weak/tight player limped in I might try to steal it but KTs isn't very strong even shorthanded and I'd either fold or limp it.

After playing it like you did I'd make a CB of 2/3 pot and foldd to a riase, if I get called I shut down unless I improve on the turn. I count 3xK, 2xT, 10xSpades as improvements. I may check behind with the FD though unless the players tend to give up on the turn.
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Postby Cactus Jack » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:11 am

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Postby Stoneburg » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:31 am

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Postby Cactus Jack » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:44 am

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Postby Cactus Jack » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:57 am

Just played an interesting SNG that illustrates perfectly what I was trying to say above.

I busted out 4th. In 57 hands, I got a pair once, the 88 I busted out on. Going over the HH, I never had anything higher than A7s, and NO hands with two Broadway cards. I feel pretty good about being able to stay around so long with buzzards circling around my seat at the table because my hands were carrion.

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:53 am

Now that you changed the flop, I would have checked behind. Two small broadways against two loose limpers when I have an OESD. I'll take the check. You neglected to consider that loose limpers also love playing suited hands and connectors and your puny PF raise certainly won't scare them away from folding those.
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Postby Stoneburg » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:12 pm

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Postby EscapePlan9 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:00 pm

I would discount your overcard out somewhat if someone c/r all-in. You'd be getting somewhere close to 3:1 odds to call the all-in with two cards to come. I'd wait for a better spot than to risk my tournament life here knowing I'll only improve enough to win 30% (or less) of the time. Cash games, you probably should call.
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Postby Stoneburg » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:29 pm

He's a big stack so he isn't risking his tournament life by calling.
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Postby EscapePlan9 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:39 pm

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