any other lines? (100plo8)

[Kuso]

MP1 was uberlag (vpip over 80%, pfr over 50%) named betpot (any info on him?) who seemed to play fairly well post-flop. i really wanted to isolate pf, but it didn't happen.

is there any other line i can take here? the pf reraise defines my hand as likely having Aces, so he clearly is happy to put me in on the turn when his four-card hand hits the board hard. as such, are there other lines pf or post-flop that i could or should take?


Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players


Stack sizes:
UTG: $83.80
UTG+1: $81.75
UTG+2: $233.61
MP1: $235.99
MP2: $75.12
Hero: $99.99
CO: $20
Button: $308.29
SB: $197.22
BB: $30.75

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP3 with
3 folds, MP1 raises to $3.5, MP2 calls $3.5, Hero raises to $15.5, 4 folds, MP1 calls $12, MP2 calls $12.

Flop: ($48, 3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $48, MP1 calls $48, MP2 calls $48.

Turn: ($192, 3 players)
MP1 is all-in $172.49, MP2 calls all-in $11.62, Hero calls all-in $36.49.
Uncalled bets: $136 returned to MP1.

River: ($276.6, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $226.86, Sidepot 1: $49.74)


Results:
Final pot: $276.6
MP1 shows Ac Ts 6c 2d
MP2 shows 8h Ad Kc 2h
Hero shows As 4d Ah Qc


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1626142
pokenum -o8 as 4d ah qc - ac ts 6c 2d - 8h ad kc 2h -- 6h 7c qd
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing 7c Qd 6h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Qc 4d Ah 122 395 271 0 65 319 6 0.431
Ts Ac 6c 2d 70 200 466 0 0 22 391 0.349
Kc Ad 8h 2h 28 71 595 0 0 65 391 0.220


i was ahead on the flop, so i'm happy i got the bulk of my money in then. somehow i still feel a little violated by this lag.


interesting HU stats on flop

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1626157
pokenum -o8 as 4d ah qc - ac ts 6c 2d -- 6h 7c qd
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing 7c Qd 6h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Qc 4d Ah 177 535 285 0 108 378 9 0.492
Ts Ac 6c 2d 194 285 535 0 450 36 9 0.508


[edited to change title]

[m9man]

[TomG]

[m9man]

eek. with that info, then yeah, right move. and i need account there.

[Kuso]

further reads (based an active 30 hands or so)...

- he would pfr a lot and would CB with any kind of potential in the hand, but he would slow down on turn or river without a hand.

- a nut low constituted a hand... maybe even a non-nut one (not enough data for this assessment).

- he was aggressive with stealing orphan pots even with air.

- would go nuts with two pair (incl. raising into aggression)

- he bet scare cards even if they didn't help him... the 2pr or better rule seemed to still be in effect.

- he seemed to give some respect to my aggression when i showed down some hands (he quartered me when we both had nut low with 2pr and his was better... i made him think a bit when i put him all-in.


- fwiw, m9man, i had the pot odds to call. my equity wasn't as bad as you think... esp. versus a maniac and being all-in. the range i put him on (due to aggression into my aggression) was bare 2pr (beating my aces and knowing it), bare str8, low draw plus 2pr, low draw plus str8, low draw and flush draw, low draw and a TP, low draw and a str8 draw, etc. low draws didn't need to be to nuts. the other player in the pot is particularly why i wonder if i should have taken a different line, as my low probably was NOT good. i had no reads on the other player, and was hoping that the flop bet would push him out (good thing it didn't, as i was just a coinflip versus villain on flop).


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1626649
pokenum -o8 as 4d ah qc - ac ts 6c 2d - 8h ad kc 2h -- 6h 7c qd tc
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 36 enumerated boards containing Tc 7c Qd 6h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Qc 4d Ah 5 7 29 0 2 11 0 0.194
Ts Ac 6c 2d 12 26 10 0 0 0 14 0.625
Kc Ad 8h 2h 3 3 33 0 0 2 14 0.181

[JDLush]

[Kuso]

[WVTriker]

[JDLush]

[Kuso]

fwiw, i had about 20% equity on the turn... so basically i was calling off $40 to win about $54 Sklansky bucks. i have LOTS of outs other than the deuces. theoretically two aces (both out, actually), two queens, four sevens, AND four dueces (two of those out) to take some or all of the pot.

furthermore, if i wasn't willing to take this line, then i should NOT have reraised pf, imo.


i have also been thinking a lot about AA hands recently. Aisthesis made a lot of good posts regard AAxx hands in plo, and a lot of it carries over to plo8 -- esp. with hands like this. check out the pf equity:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1626190
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as 4d ah qc - ac ts 6c 2d - 8h ad kc 2h
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Qc 4d Ah 144282 238901 258901 2198 54411 119591 7638 0.423
Ts Ac 6c 2d 57379 133848 362592 3560 19915 41369 180591 0.297
Kc Ad 8h 2h 62471 123691 372749 3560 2460 58839 180591 0.279

i like this situation, and notice how my equity didn't change much after the flop even though i theoretically whiffed. the catch is that one needs to play well post flop if the CB is not an all-in, and one needs to be willing to get stacked and not sweat it. i can do this at the 200s and lower. the question is whether i can do this at the 400s and 1000s. this is why i think one actually needs a decent BR to play plo8 well. you give up A LOT of sklansky bucks if you get passive when you have these chances -- but you need to have the BR to withstand the variance.

anyway, i am CERTAIN that i did not make any mathematical errors in this hand. that doesn't bother me. the question is whether i could have managed the hand in a way that minimized my downside exposure while maintaining my upside potential. ultimately, i am not sure that one gets many chances like this in which people are willing to put so much money in the pot with such relatively weak holdings (e.g., pf and on the flop). the bulk of the money went in when i had at least a 8% equity advantage over my nearest opponent. i'm think that this amount is very significant in a three-way pot and these opportunities are rare.

i guess what i am trying to say is that it IS possible to wait around for hands like AA2Q (or AA3Q and a 2 on the flop) instead of AA4Q before you start rockin' and rollin'. that insures that you'll have nut low potential and the wonders of AA for your high. but if you wait for that -- or if you wait for a set before you start jamming -- are you giving up too much opportunity cost?

it seems like "yes" is the answer. hence the need for BR. i could be wrong, though, so that's why i'm asking.

[Kuso]

[Kuso]

[JDLush]

[Kuso]

ok... after thinking about this, i think i misplayed this hand. the reraise didn't get enough money in the middle while at the same time defining my hand too well.

i should have called, jammed if someone else reraised, but otherwise taken a flop and played from there.

i think being a slave to the numbers here takes away a lot of strategic advantage that i have over most of my opponents. the way i played it, while statistically correct, left me exposed to some massive reverse implied odds.