What were they thinking? 2000plo8

[Kuso]

what were each of these two players thinking on each street?

i have some thoughts, but i'll let others comment first.


[note: the seats assignments are a little off, but the position of the two players in the hand is correct.]


$2000 PL Omaha Hi-Lo
Table Table 95179
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: LOSER ( $4880.06 )
Seat 6: player 1 ( $1940 )
Seat 8: player 3 ( $1104 )
Seat 9: WINNER ( $1948.48 )
Seat 10: player 4 ( $3928.87 )
Seat 1: player 5 ( $2835 )
Seat 2: player 6 ( $2045 )
Seat 7: player 7 ( $1893.50 )
Seat 3: player 8 ( $2000.50 )
Seat 5: player 9 ( $2161 )
LOSER posts small blind [$10].
player 1 posts big blind [$20].
** Dealing down cards **
player 3 folds.
player 4 folds.
player 5 folds.
WINNER calls [$20].
player 6 folds.
player 7 calls [$20].
player 8 folds.
player 9 calls [$20].
LOSER raises [$110].
player 1 folds.
WINNER calls [$100].
player 7 folds.
player 9 folds.
** Dealing Flop **
LOSER checks.
WINNER checks.
** Dealing Turn **
LOSER bets [$297].
WINNER raises [$1188].
LOSER calls [$891].
** Dealing River **
LOSER bets [$2673].
WINNER is all-In.
LOSER shows a pair of aces.
WINNER shows two pairs, jacks and sixes.
LOSER wins $2032.52 from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
WINNER wins $3953.96 from the main pot with two pairs, jacks and sixes.
There was no qualifying low hand.

[Kuso]

reads:

WINNER is a winning player overall. mid- to high-20s vpip. tends to showdown solid hands, but is sometimes prone to tilt.

LOSER is loose. 45% vpip 13%pfr. over 700 hands or so, is either a losing player or on a cooler.

[briachek]

[Kuso]

[briachek]

[Xaston]

[briachek]

[januarymute]

[JDLush]

[Kuso]

I was hoping to get my 2 cents in before Mute replied, but sadly i just woke up.



LOSER

pf - great... no problems.

flop - as mute said, why not bet? this is a great flop for that hand. maybe looking for a CR?

turn - initial bet is fine... WINNER checked behind on the flop, so maybe the aces are good. again, flop bet better, but this is not terrible. that being said, after he gets raised, i really question his call. he could be playing for half the pot, and he really has no idea where he stands. people do make plays like WINNER made with air, so i guess it really depends on reads. playing for his stack in this situation shows a lot of gamboool, imo.

river - ok, whatever... if WINNER was deep, this might be a compelling bet. not in this situation. i've seen people fold to even smaller bets (e.g., someone playing a low draw like WINNER did and then whiffing on the river). that being said, i'm not sure what he looking to do with the bet. hands that beat him are going to call, hands that don't are going to fold. on the other hand, he could end up saving some money if WINNER checks behind with a weak hand that beats his aces. all of this turn and river nonsense seems to be a result of LOSER not betting the flop.


WINNER (mute)

pf - i have real questions about this. i see this hand as something like 36s in hold 'em. you've REALLY got to hit the flop hard and have really good implied odds for this hand to be worth playing for a raise. i think that there's enough there for a limp. i'd also consider openraising with slightly better position (e.g., MP3 or CO) so that i can have initiative on a janky flop. calling the pfr, however, has me stumped. exactly what kind of flop is WINNER looking for? almost everything that helps his hand (other than high flush cards) also puts a low out -- consequently meaning that he's most likely playing for half of a HU pot. i don't think that WINNER can always count on getting that free turn card to make his hand. anyway, i don't really have issues calling a pfr with speculative hands, but i'd prefer a hand like A4JK over the A46J that WINNER held. this decreases the chances of chopping when i hit my hand.

flop - checking seems fine. what does WINNER need to bet (see questions below)? is second pair not enough? i'd put LOSER on A23x or A24x at this point, and he hates this flop. i'd be wrong, but still...

turn - as mute said, common sense. he only fears Q6 or 66, as LOSER would have bet anything else on the flop.

river - don't believe the hype for 3:1. that being said, i'm not sure what i'd do with a deep stack.




my questions to mute:

- what kind of flop were you hoping for?

- what kind of flop would you need to bet when checked to?

- would you have called if villain had potted the flop?

- if you would call the flop bet, would you have looked to get it all in on the turn (assuming that LOSER's aggression might make you see the hand differently)?

- do you call the river bet if you have LOSER covered?

[januarymute]

[Kuso]

[januarymute]

[Felonius_Monk]

[januarymute]