ATE how do you play this ?

[euri10]

hi ATE
I read that you'd be ok to answer any questions in the other game section about any game.
in my local club in Paris, France I regulary play a pot limit dealer's choice table, blinds are 1/2 EUR, and 2 games are very popular among local players, Courchevel and Aviation (the name of the club is the Aviation )

Basically Courchevel is a PLO game with these 2 differences, you're dealt 5 cards instead of 4, and the first card of the flop is visible BEFORE the first round of betting.
I'm currently learning PLO and find now quite comfortable with starting requirements and betting process. For Courchevel I found interesting to see a lot more action than in PLO preflop. I havn't really played a hand but I feel that a "good" hand should be higher than its equivalent in PLO. Moreover I find that bluff should take more importance than in PLO. But these are just beginner's feelings so I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about it.

The second game is Aviation where you're dealt 4 cards. AFTER the first betting round but BEFORE the flop is dealt, each player should put away one card. AFTER the flop is dealt and AFTER the 2nd betting round you put away a 2nd card, after that you play holdem.
And this one I should admit I have no idea about what I'm looking for.

thanks in advance for your answers on these pretty silly games...

[AdamtheExpert]

I'll get to this EXTEMEMLY COMPLICATED question, tomorrow.

But, for starters, Whooooooo says that I don't know what "corcheval" is.


Merci pour la question, a demain .


Adam

[AdamtheExpert]

Well, I don't answer ANY question. By the way, what makes you think you had to tell me what Corcheval it? Ha ha, I would not be Adam the expert, if I didn't know taht


Anyway, you are lucky to live somewhere, where they actually have poker games, with SKILL. Wow, talk about a game that gives all the advantage to the good players.

Too bad such games don't exist anymore. (except France)

Anyway, as I'm sure you have gathered, the key to Corcheval is pretty obvious. You MUST MUST had a hand, that's well-coordinated, AROUND the exposed card. At least if there's any heavy betting. With a game like this, with very low blinds, you are going to have to play the waiting game. With five cards per person, it's not very hard at all, to have a set of whatever the exposed card is. Not that a set of 2's is any big deal.

Just make sure to coordinate your hand, around the exposed card. suddenly, being suited on an Ace (that is NOT the suit of the exposed card) is no big deal at all. at 14.4 to one agasint even having a DRAW to the nut flush, when the EC is not of your suit.

But, when the EC IS of your suit, it's now only about 1.5 to 1 against having the nut flush draw, and only 14.4 to 1 against having the nut FLUSH. So, I would push hands where your ace flush draw card, is the EC.

Beware of hands, that contain pairs, LOWER than the EC. hands like QQ10109, become almost useless, when the EC is a king or an Ace. Someone may very well have a set already,

Make sure that you are centered around the EC!!! Opppps, did ATE say that already!!?

GUESS IT MUST BE IMPORTANT THEN. Sadly, the more skill to a game, the more boring it's going to be.

THAT'S THE TRUTH ABOUT POKER. The greater the advantage to the good player, the LESS likely you are going to get a playable hand.

But, the rewards for your patience, will be great.

Imagine a big big pot, with the EC the King of clubs, and you have AcKhKd10cQd

Top set, and possible nut flush draw.


Having an 89 10 J Q, with a 10 as the EC, is not so bad, but not great.


Just make sure, that you are at least SOMEHOW involved with the EC.

playing a 3 4 5 6 7, when the EC is a king, is just suicide.


Sure, normal good hands, such as A A J J Q, doulbe suited, with an EC of 6 not of your suit as still playable, but ATE would not put in a lot of action.

Once in a while, make a small raise, with a hand that does NOT involve the EC, just so your opponents do not know that when you raise, you have a Well EC'd hand.

Say you have KKQQJ, and the EC is a 8. Well, you still have a shot at making top set, so I'd make it 6 euros.

Just to get extra action, when the EC is good for you.


As far as the other game, welllllllllll ATE may get to that someday, or, I may not.

[AdamtheExpert]

Uh, the rules of ATE state that you acknowledge my answer, D'accord?

since you didn't know, I'll let this one slide.

[euri10]

found your answer very interesting, I try to answer more deeply when I would have more time .;

[euri10]

ok,
I found your remark about the play around the EC card very pertinent and wanted to add a few things that I feel, any criticism welcomed.

The lower the EC card is compared to your hand in case of a gap hand, the better your hand is.
It's the same as in Omaha when you have a 1 gapper hand, the lower the gap is, the better your hand. When talking about 1 or 2 gapper hands ones refers obviously to hands that wants to draw to a str8. And franckly I put little value in str8 draws in that game compared to flush draws.
I'd rather have a 2/3 gap hand double suited than a 0 gap hand 1 suited... I can't argument a lot about it, it's more a feeling.
Moreover if you have a double suited hand it's interesting to know wether your hand is better with 3 of a suit / 2 of the other or with 2 / 2 / 1 other...
I think it really depends on the value of last card, the one of the other suit in the 2/2/1 or the lowest one in the 3/2 configuration.
I put very little value on made set with the EC card, every time this EC card is under a Ten.
les than that you are often facing hands that could easily outdraw you. It can be contradictory with your rule about the EC card, a set with the EC card is indeed the best hand at that point of the game, but franckly I dont remember a showdown where the EC set won.

In this game, action on the EC card betting round is pretty intense, strong drawing hands tend to agress quite significanlty, and this reinforce the fact that made set with the EC card are often exposed to be outdraw by these hands.
I remark that turn and river are completly passive generally, wondered why, but generally it's because players are completly committed no ?

and to finish, it's played in a dealer's choice version and I wondered if it changed anything in the way to apprehend it .