What do you do here? PP 5/10 nl hand.

[iceman5]

[Mad Genius]

I'm gonna disagree with palman about the turn bet. I don't like the $150 bet much for a couple of reasons. First of all, what do we know about EP? He is tight. He limped in EP preflop then called a pot-sized bet AND a raise in front of him, being out of position. Knowing this, we should be able to narrow down his range of hands pretty well. What do most tight players limp with in EP? Big aces, wired pairs, and possibly suited connectors. On the flop, we can discard big ace, as I can't possibly see a tight player calling there even with AJ (not to mention he would have probably bet out). This leads me to think he would either have a monster draw [Tc] or [9c], or TT/44/JT. With any of these holdings, especially the 2pr/set variety (which was hero's read to begin with), I don't see EP going anywhere. The turn card isn't that big of a scare card for a set because while it completes the KQ draw, that's the ONLY draw that it makes. It doesn't make any other straight draw or the flush draw. Now, if I'm EP on the turn, I'm not going anywhere if I have a big hand. By betting only 150, you effectively give yourself no chance to take EP's entire stack, provided hero and EP both have well over 1K. The pot is 340, and if hero bets 150 and EP calls, that still makes the pot only 640. And even if LP calls, it's 790. Not only that, but there are too many scarecards that can hit the river that will scare off EP if he indeed has 2pr/set.Any K, Q, 8, 7, or club will likely cause him to fold to a big river bet.

But another important reason to bet more on the turn IMO is because of LP. He's shown strength by raising the flop. You proceeded to just call him after someone else raised. It would be damn hard for him to put hero on either a good made hand (which would likely repop the flop) or KQ, which he wouldn't expect to come out firing on the turn. The great thing about a bigger bet is that it not only disguises his hand (how often do you see poeople checking after betting the flop once they make their nuts? way too often right?), but it's also a great pot-builder since I don't really see an aggro player going anywhere after he raised the flop.

If hero bets 300, he can still expect to be called in one place more often than not, especially if both would be willing to call 150. By getting even one call, he would not only have the same pot-size, but also would be committing the opponent a lot more to the pot. Furthermore, if one of the two players does in fact have the nut flush draw, hero's bet would be forcing vilian to make a terrible call. As it was, LP called 150 into a 490 pot with EP still in the hand and implied odds, which isn't that bad a call from LP's perspective, since he doesn't know hero has clubs as well.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just sense too much strength from both the players for them to be going away on a $300 turn bet after LP raised the flop and EP stayed in on a bet and a raise, especially knowing that he is tight. If hero is up against a set and a club draw, or a set and 2pr, etc. then I think the best spot to get the money in is on the turn, as he is not only vulnerable to certain cards, but a lot of cards can come that will scare such hands off.

[Scott Francis]

[palman]

[Mad Genius]

[Scott Francis]

[Scott Francis]

Agree Genius. If I thought for a second I could bet 300 and get raised by either of them I'm doing it. But I was afraid theyd both fold. Didnt know if they would at the time but I know I didnt want that to happen. In hindsight I don't think I fold them both but that was my concern at the time.

SF

[palman]

I'm in full agreement of the danger of the check-behind.

So lets summarize.

1) Checking doesn't work because of the dangers of having it be checked behind.
2) Betting out doesn't work because of the fishiness of leading out, getting raised, and leading out again. It kinda announced your hand.
3) Betting the pot doesn't work because they fold.

Who said position was important in holdem =)

Of all the bets..... perhaps a pot sized bet of around $300 is the best course of action. You could easily be read as having QJ or something of the like and just trying to buy, and get a variety of hands to push back at you.

[k3nt]

[cholo loco]