Non-nut straight in raised pot

[Aisthesis]

Seeing the flop with this hand to a raise was no doubt a little dodgy, although I don't think horrible. Both opponents are very aggressive, and I think I'll get a CB on any semi-uncoordinated board. So, I think I can do some damage with setting. The two gaps for the straight are rather questionable, though. So, anyhow, I played it.

Villain here is extremely aggro but will have some kind of a hand. I guess I feel like I should have called the river or else folded the turn. I honestly think my hand wins about as often as it loses against this particular player, and I can't really call the turn merely hoping to hit a flush. It felt to my like villain was more angry that the raiser hadn't given him the opportunity to c-r. I do think he had some straight but am not at all sure which.

So, how do you play the turn and river here? Fold the turn? Raise maybe? Or call both? I'm not particulary happy with the line of calling the turn and folding the river, which is the line I took.

I actually find raising the turn rather interesting, albeit AWFULLY aggressive. I find out definitively whether or not he has the nut straight, have fold equity against a split straight and do have flush outs even if he does have the nut straight, which, objectively anyway, should call rather than push without a redraw... (?).

Is a turn mini-raise also worth considering on a board with several straights possible?

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
8 players


Stack sizes:
UTG: $91.50
UTG+1: $104.70
MP1: $100
Hero: $160.85
CO: $94.95
Button: $56.25
SB: $105.20
BB: $125.60

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP2 with
2 folds, MP1 calls $1 (pot was $1.5), Hero calls $1 (pot was $2.5), CO folds, Button raises to $5, 2 folds, MP1 calls $4 (pot was $8.5), Hero calls $4 (pot was $12.5).

Flop: ($16.5, 3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($16.5, 3 players)
MP1 bets $15.7, Hero calls $15.7 (pot was $32.2), Button folds.

River: ($47.9, 2 players)
MP1 bets $45.55, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $45.55 returned to MP1.

Results:
Final pot: $47.9

[Felonius_Monk]

If you just called the turn I think you have to call the river. Otherwise you need to be raising/folding the turn. Looks like he probably has the nut straight but still, I think perhaps a bit of a raise on the turn (as you put it) would work here. The only concern is that much more than a min raise will commit you to the pot (because of your flush draw), so against some opponents I might be tempted to push here but most of the time a small raise should work OK. Would be a shame to miss your potential backdoor flush draw if he pops you back but just calling and folding to a river bet you're essentially just playing it as an orthodox flush draw (unless you also plan to take the pot away from him if the board pairs, not a bad plan against a good player).

Having TT in your hand gives a slight "Blocking" element to your holding that makes TJ slightly less likely, though I wouldn't read much into that.

[Aisthesis]

I agree with you on this, too. I don't like the turn call and river fold.

Actually, I think this bring up a rather interesting (to me) idea of a more general sort: What do you think in general, where there are various straights possible (for 3 possible straights you have to have 3 connecting cards) and a good deal of stack depth of mini-raising on the stronger of the straights? For example, if there are 3 possible made straights, just folding bottom straight to a bet, but mini-raising top or middle straight (at least against reasonably aggro opponents).

That seems to me to allow you to define your hand a lot better. Also, if there are players left to act, you should pretty much drive them off of more dubious draws (most of the time--and I'm talking here mainly about flush draw with nothing) due to the uncertainty as to how the initial bettor will act.

Also, if they hammer it, you can flat call with the nut straight only (assuming there's stack-depth left) and push with nut straight and redraw.

This move at least seems to me to give some "feeling out" room in such situations without getting in excessively deep on losers.

[Aisthesis]

Oh, one other thing I wanted to add. I agree on the blocking element. I think it has moderately significant value in NLHE (although it can even lead to problems there), but, while it has a LITTLE value in Omaha, you certainly can't count on it. Like top 2 vs. top set happens all the time...

[Felonius_Monk]

[pnutbutr]

EDIT: Nevermind, read the history wrong.