I guess this is a stop and go but not really

[iceman5]

$5/$10 NL 6 max

I limp [Jh] in MP. The button who is a fish raises to $40. I call.

Pot $95. Flop [9s][3c]. I check / call $70

Pot $235. Turn I lead $150. (He has $475 left) Im planning on pushing any non spade river. Thoughts?

Earlier, this guy called my $40 button raise with A4s in the BB. Final board was AT283 and he called every street. $50 on flop, $125 on turn, $310 on river. I had 88.

[geewhiz]

preflop - horrible.

turn - I think you have to check here to try to get paid off on the river. He's going to fold overpairs here because all of the draws have come in. Unless he's a complete donkey I like leading out on the river.

Edit: just saw that he is a fish. Then this play might not be bad if he will call you down with an overpair/ As x

[Yliherra]

You really gotta have a read on him being a major league fish to get paid there. Anyone with half a brain can see you just hit.

[Allstar7]

[Stelvask]

[geewhiz]

[NorthView]

Like he said, how bad does this guy have to be to call with an overpair when the flush AND straight got there? Still, I don't like giving him a free card so I guess it's fine.

[iceman5]

Open limping is not horrible. Its marginal, but not horrible. Ive been raising in this spot alot lately and its not working well. If I flop a pair, Im going to win a small pot or lose a med one. Flopping TP and betting is just like flopping nothing and betting because if I get called, Im probably in trouble. If I get raised, Im toast. Id rather flop a draw than flop TP and I can do that cheaper by limping.

If the table is passive (which it was), I can limp with no problems. I didnt want to have to call a raise and I wouldnt have if it wasnt this guy. I may have called asmall raise from a blind since I would have position, but no way i call a raise from a decent player heads up who has position on me.

As for, my leading out on the turn making it obvious what I have, I disagree. These guys all think people are making moves on them constantly when a scare card hits. I can guarantee you hes sitting there thinking "screw him, he doesnt have the flush"

Last time I made a similar play it went like this. I had KJ in an unraised pot. Flop was QTx with a flush draw. I check / called the flop. I check / called a small turn bet. The flush (but not my straight) hit the river and I led out 3/4 pot. I got called by QJ. The flush hits and he still calls with TP weak kicker. So, no, I dont think a fish will fold TP or an overpair just because I lead out on a scare card.

[shobute]

[iceman5]

I didnt say raising preflop wasnt profitable. Im saying limping can be also.

Lets say he has an overpair here. I raise to $35 and he reraises to $110-$125. Are you calling when he only started the hand with $580 and youre OOP?

If you do, the pot is $225. The flop comes T93. This is a bad spot. Theres no way I would call a reraise preflop when the guy is that short and Im OOP.

Most things in poker are situational. To say you have to raise QJs in MP is just wrong. To say you have to limp it is wrong. Its situational and depends on your style.

In this particular hand, he called my turn bet and called my push on the river. He had AA with the . So I won $595 on this hand. If I raised preflop, I most likely wouldve lost $35 when i folded to the reraise.

Im not trying to be results oriented here. The hand could play out entirely different depending on what hand he had. Im just saying that preflop decisions are situational and arent as black and white as alot of people think. You dont HAVE to raise just because you have QJs and its folded to you. The whole "I dont open limp" thing is overblown in my opinion.

[Aisthesis]

I don't really have a problem PF as long as you play it like a SC and don't get attached to a Q or a J as TP--and those may even have some value short-handed. You just have to know when you're beat. In FR, IF I play this hand to a raise, I'm check-folding a board like Q42 with no flush draw.

I'm not so sure about the rest of it. This guy sounds like a stationish fish. I usually still pop a raise in there (or bet into him) with the open-ender. Then you have them hooked if you hit, but OOP, it's also a little dodgy since you have to check the turn on a miss, and it sounds like he's pretty passive/cally.

I don't think I really mind the check-call line here. True, you lose deception, but that at least doesn't matter as much against a moron as it does against a good player.

[shobute]

[iceman5]

Dont roll your eyes at me , Im being serious.

Im not saying that just because I busted the guy this time that is limping is correct every time. Im saying that there are alot of times where limping is fine.

I'll say this, you and I have disagreed on almost every hand we've discussed in the past few days but yet we both are winning players. That alone should tell you that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I raised in the cutoff with [2d] 20 mins ago. What does that mean about the specific best way to play [2d]? Absolutely nothing.

Preflop decisions like this one arent the main factor in the hand in a NL game. The question is...are you playing the rest of the hand correctly based on the way you chose to play the hand preflop this time. That was my question. How was my turn play based on limp / calling in that spot with that turn card.

[shobute]

[kennyg]