PLO - Two sets, non-standard play(?)

[Stoneburg]

Blinds 0.5/1, as usual about 50 players seeing each flop.

Hand #1
JQTTs in MP. UTG limps, UTG+1 raises to 3, one caller, I call and so do a bunch of others. We are 6 to the flop (plus one guy with 1bb who is all-in).

Flop comes TJ3 rainbow. Blind checks, UTG bets 1 (so mature...), raiser flat calls as does the next one. I pot it to 25 and the guy immediatly behind me calls. Everyone else folds. I've got a little more than a full stack, he has me covered.

Turn is an 8 completing the rainbow. I check, he checks.

River is a 2. I bet 40

The only draw on the flop is a straight draw, if he had Q9xx he got there. I'm a bit scared by the last simmilar hand where I got stacked in this situation against an OESD. Since he didn't bet the turn I put him on bottom set and bet for value.


Hand #2
QQJ9s in the SB. 4 limpers, I complete, BB checks.

Flop comes Q53 rainbow. I lead out for 6 and get two callers. Caller 1 has 180, caller 2 has 80 and I've got 170.

Turn is a J putting a flush draw (not mine) out. I checl, caller 1 bets 10, caller 2 calls and I check/raise to 64. Caller 1 calls.

River is a K, I push (100 into 160).

Is a check/raise good on that turn? If I just lead out there will be a lot of money left behind and there's now a million scare cards that can come on the turn. I feel this turn will get bet most of the time and if it doesn't, I have under repped my hand and should get boat value against trips or a smaller boat on the river.

[Felonius_Monk]

Hand 1 I almost invariably check-call the river here. Lots of players will hazard a bluff here if you tap; a busted straight draw is much more likely than 33 IMO.

Hand 2 I don't actually mind the turn check-raise against the right opponents, in fact I think it's often a very good play here. I don't normally lead out on that flop mind you. I'm really not sure about the river. I think if he's solid/tricky/aggressive, check-call might be better, whereas if he's loose-ish/passive betting out is probably best. It may be better to bet out 50-odd (against someone you have a REALLY good read on you might even make a 30 or 40 bet with the intention of folding to a raise, but in general I wouldn't recommend that).

[Aisthesis]

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[Stoneburg]

Monk:
I think the check/call you recommend is the game-theoretically best option. However, the main (and huge) flaw of these players is that they call too much. They don't really play tricky or aggressive, most of the time they're just loose and passive. PT doesn't work here but I would say the average player is like 75% vpip and goes to showdown... well, way too often anyway. This hand goes to show that, he called with J3.

Hand #2
I'm not 100% sure someone will bet, but my guess is that on this pretty dry flop someone called with a weak made hand like TP two-pair or bottom set, and most of the time they will throw out a weak bet with that (proportional betting is very common here). Folding to a check/raise is also very rare (you can't go from bet to fold without first making a stop at call). Of course I was hoping for a bigger bet so I could get it in, it kind of sucks to have 100 left for the river.

Yeah the river sucks but it would seem obscene of him to have called all this with AT or T9 in his hand (with a vpip of 80 or so and no preflop raise I am not too worried about ATQJ or QJT9 which is what beats me).

With the board looking so scare I'm sure he won't bet hands that I beat, so to get any value I have to bet it myself and hope for a weak call. Unfortunately I didn't get one.

Raising it preflop? Haven't really considered that since I never raise from EP or the blinds (except re-raise with AA).


I raise preflop to make the game bigger since A) they tend to play even worse when it is raised, and B) it makes it easier to get their stack in with just two bets or so. When I am OOP I feel I lose a lot of edge, not being able to see what the donks are up to, so I prefer waiting to after the flop (when my hand is more defined) to start building the pots and setting them up.

[Aisthesis]