Is this an "easy" turn call?

[pokeritsallskill]

Pretty big hand at my friend's home game.

I have about 500 in front, villain has about 250. I limp in MP with . Villain makes it 17 to go, I call along with 4 others.

Flop comes . She bets 30, I call, and two others call.

Turn . She bets 100, leaving about 80 behind and the other two have 100 or less. Do you make this call?

[Rhound50]

[pokeritsallskill]

Hey, thanks for the comment.

I don't think calling QTs is especially bad vs. this player because A) She's tipping the strength of her hand as she has a small range of PFR hands and B) She will stack off if you outhit her.

2nd, I actually had a double gutshot on the flop. QT and it came AJ8. The other two stacks in the hand had less than 100 or so. Plus, how is it plausible to put one of the shorter stacks on a flush draw? There was only one club on the flop and the only hand I can think of to proceed with the hand is maybe the .

I don't mind calling the flop as my hand is really well disguised. Once I hit my 2nd club though, I think I'm not going anywhere with the hand unless she shoved 180 on the turn.

Let me count the pot.... Preflop: 17*5 = 85, Flop 30*4 = 120, total - 205. Turn bet of 100 making the pot 305 and 100 to call. Getting just a tad over 2:1, factor in implied odds of an extra 80 dollars, it's about 390 and 100 to call. Does that sound about right?

[Rhound50]

wow yeah I messed up, i totally missed the double gutshot. That does change things a bit. I didnt say that for sure someone had a flush draw, it is possible. My major point here is that with all the callers on the flop there have to be other draws out there ie the same double gutty as yours of KQ or K10, 910 etc so all the outs you are counting are likely not there. This is one of those hands where you are likely to be missing a lot of outs you think you have. You actually may be getting correct odds with the extra potential odds.

I think preflop is the biggest issue here and a place where a lot of good player get themselves in trouble. I cant remeber which book it is but some of the best advice I have read about hands like this goes as follows. Implied odds with dominated/ trap hands is not sufficient to make up for the money lost with these hands. If you had called this with 76c I would like your play a lot more. The thing is against this player there is to big a chance you are severly dominated preflop where the implied odds dont make up for calling with Q10s. Up against hands like QQ, AQ, 1010 you need an almost perfect flop to get your so called implied odds. My final thought here is you make it sounds like this girl is not that good a player or at least cant fold a big hand. In this hand sure you are getting borderline implied odds but you are putting money in the pot twice when you know you dont have the best hand. Why would you want to do this against a player that you should have a decent edge on. Even a +ev play doesnt make a play correct if you can possibly wait for a bigger ev edge.

[Spank_her_Pair]

[black_knight6]

[black_knight6]

[pokeritsallskill]

Hey, it's a 1/2 game. The game was pretty much winding down.

I obviously know that I need to smash the flop in order to continue. Qxx is not a good enough flop for me to proceed.

Anyway, let's make a long story short. The others folded, river came , she shoves, I call and win

[GodlikeRoy]

[SinkRox]

[adamh]

pre flop and flop im folding

[pokeritsallskill]

[pokeritsallskill]

[DoctorHandles]