These 2 hands are making me sick (FR $50)

[MTPaid]

Both of these hands take place at almost the same time on 2 different tables about 2 to 3 orbits in so I have no reads except PT stats.

Hand 1:
[4h] OTB.
MP2 open-limps, CO limps, I limp. Both blinds play.
[9h][6d] Pot $2.50
Checked around.
Pot $2.50
SB min-bets ($8.50 left), MP2 (40/5/30 at that time) raises to $3.50 ($24.50 left), I re-raise to $9.50 (have both covered), SB folds, MP2 calls.
Pot $22
MP2 instantly pushed for $18.50. His money was in the pot just as the card hit the virtual felt. I'm getting over 2-1 on my money. What does this insta-push look like?

Hand 2:
[8s] UTG.
I limp, MP1 limps, Button raises to $2. BB calls, I call, MP1 calls.
[Tc][Th] Pot $8.25
BB and I check, MP1 (38/5/25 - I must have previously played with him because I have 70 hands on him in PT) donks $2 into the raiser. Button calls the $2, BB calls the $2. Here I was planning on c/r'ing the Button. Usually I'd lead on this vs a raiser, but since the raise came from the Button, he may not have had much and not raised me.
Now I have a too many people in the pot ($14.25 now) so I c/r to $18.25. MP1 takes a while and calls. Other 2 fold.
Pot $48.75
I have $25.60 left. He has $25.70. He's pretty loose and I can't really put him on a hand after just calling my c/r. What now and where did I screw this one up?

[Ojingo]

1) You could raise a bit bigger on the turn, but I don't think it really matters. If your opponent calls a reraise there he has at least a 4, and his quick push suggests that he planned to push regardless of the river card. You're beat most of the time, but then you only have to be good a bit less than one in three times, so without a read I probably call. Don't forget the random donk factor, sometimes you'll see AA there.

2) I'd never limp that UTG in full ring, but given that you hit one of the best possible flops, you go to the felt. Checkraise is fine if you're confident that he'll bet, and push turn.

[adamh]

[Bosox1]

[MindOverMatter]

[EscapePlan9]

[MTPaid]

Hand 1: I called and he had [2s]. 43 cards in the deck for me to stack him. 3 for him to double up. I couldn't think of any hand he would call and not re-raise or push the turn with that has me beat. I didn't think he'd be drawing to a flush on a paired board after he raised and got re-raised. I just couldn't figure out his hand so I did put him on a worse 4 and I was right, kinda.

Hand 2: I limp with a lot of speculative hands UTG or in EP, mostly Txs or below sc's or 1 gappers, also any PP. I also limp re-raise many of my big hands from early so that helps protect me sometimes. I will usually throw away high cards because a lot of the times when you get raised, your hand can be dominated. He had [Td], which again, I didn't really expect from that weak lead out. I guess he was hoping to get raised from the PFRer, but a number of times when the raise comes from late it's a steal and they won't have anything on that board as I said in my first post, this is where I'd c/r him. A hand like ATo is a hand I'd almost always dump vs a raise and never play from UTG, lol.

[k3nt]

Hand 2 ... if you want to avoid hands like this in the future, then always look at your kicker after you flop trips. Nobody but a total donk will play a big pot with you on a paired board unless they have trips or a boat.

So this is how I approach these types of hand. If I like my kicker, then I want to play a big pot in the hopes that somebody else also has the trips and can't let go with their weaker kicker. If I hate my kicker, then I want to play a little pot. If anybody else is building a big pot, the odds are they have the trips, and their kicker is probably better so I'm in deep doo-doo. The only way to make decent money here is to convince them that you don't have much of a hand, and get someone who catches say a decent top pair on the turn to pay you off.

You have effectively the worst possible kicker here. Just about nobody is playing in MP with T7 or worse. So the mistake (IMO) is the big CR. That big a CR is only getting called by someone with trips, unless they're a megadonk with clubs.

In short, without a read that someone is very, very stupid, I don't like the big CR because it only gets called by hands that beat you.

[MTPaid]

Very true Kent, but the player with AT was the only other player in that pot that I read as a megadonk. I was looking to c/r the LP raiser who may not have much. How do you go about this hand when it gets back to you on the flop, or is my initial plan even a mistake. The 2 totally unexpected developments were
1 - The donk bet and both other players call so there are now 3 players in a growing pot by the time it gets back to me.
2 - The plain call and not re-raise by the donker.
If I bet less and c/r to say, $10. Then I can may be able to get away when he pushes because I can't read him as having anything less than me on that board even though he is a donk. He would have raised an overpair preflop. But if he just calls that one too I need to bet the Turn don't I, where I will end up committing myself? Position here turns out to not be that big of a deal as I would probably have the same problem even if I limped in from MP or slightly better.